Register now to get rid of these ads!

Hot Rods Heritage Gas: Traditional Gasser Classes and Racing

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Don Moyer, Jul 18, 2017.

?

do you have any interest in Heritage Gas

Poll closed Aug 17, 2017.
  1. yes

    54 vote(s)
    55.7%
  2. no

    43 vote(s)
    44.3%
  1. els and loudbang like this.
  2. That will be a tough one! And not led also!!! Ha.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  3. With a hard tire your much better off with a 3 pedal car so you can ride the clutch to control the tire spin. Most younger guys won't have a clue.


    Sent from my XT1650 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    els, loudbang, porkshop and 1 other person like this.
  4. Sounds like a bunch of guys need to practice on a sportsman tree too!

    Sent from my XT1650 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  5. I'm not so sure the Opel was the first small converter. Marv built the first Opel 8", as Bob was a Buick parts man at the time. The 9" Cortina was available at the same time. Vinnie Tarantola (Vitar) experimented with them.
    In the mid 60's ,a few guys figured out that ST 300 2-speed converter from a 6 cylinder would slip into a Turbo 400, and raise the stall a bunch behind a big V8 . It was only an inch smaller though.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  6. Then , out come the big wallets for the smaller multi disc soft hit clutches. Can't see a thing in a SEMA spec-ed bellhousing
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  7. Still takes knowing how to pedal it. The soft hit hooks up and ends up blowing off a hard tire 30-60 feet out, or more.

    Sent from my XT1650 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  8. Do you know what year was that?
     
    els likes this.
  9. I don't know. They run some pretty light base pressures and counterweights.
    It's all conjecture at this point anyway. Nobody knows what combos will dominate..SB, BB, rpm-ers , torquers.
    Sounds like consistency won't be the key either...More like a pedal fest to the win light!
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  10. If you're asking about the Opel, Jr Stock had it right, I believe. 1969 maybe.
    NHRA was about to come down hard on the Hydros in the sedan deliveries.
    Marv Ripes , who had a transmission shop in Van Nuys, thought he could make the cast iron Powerglide work, but he needed a bunch of stall speed to launch it. There were Powerglide winners in Stock, in the mid 60's. I don't know what they were doing for converters though.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,242

    squirrel
    Member

    Guys were playing with the ST300 converter in 1966....which is why I have one of them in my car. It's fun going fast with a 12" converter
     
    els, Don Moyer and Speedys Garage like this.
  12. My 57 has a Cortina convertor in it. This was after the Hydro rule change though. From what I have read Marv used the 6 cylinder convertors out of Novas before the Opel.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  13. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,796

    tfeverfred
    Member

    As a spectator, I'd find it a welcome treat. I stopped going to the drags, when it got corporate and the small guys got ran out. I wish you success in the endeavor.
     
  14. Von Hartmann
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 971

    Von Hartmann
    Member
    from Byron, IL

    Don, this is actually pretty exciting stuff for some like myself. I have a period built Henry J that I've raced at every single Meltdown Drags. I'm currently helping a friend with a 57 chevy build and there has been a lot of discussion on where to draw the "period correct" line. I'm on the side of, it's period or it's not. I'm in the works of changing the last 2 non period correct things on my car, the auto meter gauges, and the hurst lightning rods shifter.

    I like the dated block and heads idea. The biggest problem I see on otherwise period cars are the use of aftermarket blocks, 400 engine block, and aluminum heads (lots with the stahl patter too). Being forced to run original double hump heads, like the 1963 castings I'm running, will also limit the advantages of running massive aftermarket cams. It will even the playing field for those of use actually running vintage equipment.

    Now I'll play devils advocate. I feel the 1964 only date codes are going to really hold us back. For example, the motor I am currently running is a 1968 327 with a factory large journal steel crank, 1963 double humps heads, 1964 weiand cross ram, and a vintage grind solid Isky cam. The block date code throws me out, which is ok really, since I will be building another motor anyway.

    Although, here's motor number 2 that I have parts collected for. 1966 small journal 327, 1964 cross ram, 1967 291 casting mondello double hump heads, engle Rev kit, Isky super legerra roller cam. This motor still doesn't fit your period rules due to engine block date code and head date code. Block isn't that big of a deal, but this is the only set of mondello heads I've ever had the opportunity to own. I feel like a factory head casting limitation prior to 1970 would be enough of a restriction. Possibly even a block date code limitation of 69 and earlier with big block chevies omitted.

    For transmissions. I have collected and done the homework on all of the above. The transmission I'm currently running in the Henry J is a 100% real deal 1965 Fairbanks clutch turbo 400, built in 1965 and will remain in the car. I have a hydro stick under the bench, but the problem with the hydro, is the rebuild parts are no longer available for racing. A b&m hydro was guaranteed for 100 passes. The sintered race clutch packs it used haven't been produced since like 1970. Several years back, I found the guy that built Ohio George's hydro for the Malco Willys when the shop was still called hydro motive. He said he would go through my trans... that fellow died 2 years ago.

    My father has a 55 Chevy with a 301 sbc Muncie 4 speed a pie crust slicks. I see a lot of problems associated with running dated 4 speeds. We named the car Hartman's Hand Grenade because it was always blowing up transmissions or something. We switched the m20 Muncie over to an auto gear m23 and I put 1st gear through side of the case on that transmission on the street. The latest auto gear trans is doing great though. I guess my point is, dated 4 speeds+ modern drag strips = lots of breakage and down time. I would suggest allowing modern reproduction 4 speeds of vintage designs, so no Lenco or Jerico. The auto gear m22 is a great reproduction of a muncie and can hold a lot of power. The factory hemi 4 speeds are also a great option, but liberty no longer makes the beefed gears for them and restorers are fighting over the good stuff.

    The track itself is your biggest enemy for this class. The tracks of the 60s were unprepared. To get the tire spin like the 60s, you need that type of track. So, it will be difficult to run this class amongst other faster classes that require a sticky prepped track. A pie crust slick with a rigid side wall will shock the system harder than a wrinkle wall on a sticky track and hammer drive tran components.

    I'm a period correct nut. I'm turning a 327 to 7500 rpm and it still has a generator on it. I feel like, if these rules are even too tight for me, you'll have a tough time making a class out of this.

    *So my question has been this, what line do we draw on period correct performance cars in order to prevent blowing up museum pieces?
     
    caseyajones, els, 31hotrodguy and 4 others like this.
  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,242

    squirrel
    Member

    Very good questions....

    (as an aside, I'm curious what shifter you plan to run with the clutch turbo? I ended up making my own, to fit my TH400 in a 1966 era car)
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  16. Von Hartmann
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 971

    Von Hartmann
    Member
    from Byron, IL

    I'm putting a B&M 60 series shifter in it. Those were introduced in 1964 or 65 I believe.
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,242

    squirrel
    Member

    actually 1967, I have the press release in Hot Rod magazine, I think. I looked it up before building my own shifter.

    being period correct is a royal PITA
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  18. Not only expensive but hard to prove at the track. I wonder what the tear down fee is going to be. LOL

    I like the idea, and it would be a venue that I would be willing to go watch if it worked out that I could be in the area when the cars were running.
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  19. If this takes off, my small journal 327 is for sale.
     
  20. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,900

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Wouldn't be thinkin about a 409 now would ya
     
    els, Chucky and Max Gearhead like this.
  21. In all honesty, between this and Roothawgs post about an altered class, I can't seem to understand why you guys wouldn't build an EVENT over a class. Look at the Meltdown drags. People are traveling LOTS of miles to participate in such an event. They keep it simple (you've heard that before, right?). Build the event, and they will come. Location, location, location.

    Set a slightly higher rules standard if you desire, but if you go "nuts", only the nuts will show up.

    Believe me, promotion of vintage drag racing is important. I wish you success in whatever you decide to pursue.
     
    caseyajones, els and Don Moyer like this.
  22. theamcguy
    Joined: May 7, 2009
    Posts: 213

    theamcguy
    Member

    Sounds like a good idea.
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  23. LOL my Chet Smith 394 is for sale too. Not only would it fit the rules but you would be running a real early '60s Gas Class motor. :D
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  24. blownhemi48
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 234

    blownhemi48
    Member
    from Bergen NY

    People are expected to go through all this hassle for a trophy? May as well build for the street and enjoy the car.
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  25. Its about racing because you like racing. Racing for cash is a rat race, it was a rat race when I was tuning and its worse today.

    But racing for fun is a whole different story. If you got the cash to build a car and like to race this sort of venue can be more fun than is legal.
     
    JB_roadrage, els, Don Moyer and 3 others like this.
  26. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,900

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    If one is racing for money the crowd you would race with wouldn't be the same bunch of guys that are racing for fun.
     
    els, Don Moyer, Finn Jensen and 2 others like this.
  27. Von you make some very valid points and I agree with you on many of them! I will see if I can address some of them tonight!
     
    els likes this.
  28. This class is a Street Class so essentially your building a street car that you can have a place to play!
     
    els likes this.
  29. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 1,286

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    Great idea and I look forward to seeing how this plays out. This should produce some great cars and some fun racing! Sadly my 55 Business Coupe is out. My 283 block is correct but the 350 crank would disqualify me along with the roller cam and the Chrysler 4spd which is dated 66. Still, it will neat to watch!

    Sent from my SM-G550T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.
  30. At the Meltdown drags we have over 500 racers come from all corners of the country and Canada and there aren't even trophy's. Its not about money or trophy's to many of us, but the fun of racing with like minded individuals.
     
    caseyajones, els, Don Moyer and 3 others like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.