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Herbert lifters

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jack Gifford, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Jack Gifford
    Joined: Jan 24, 2012
    Posts: 15

    Jack Gifford
    Member
    from Phelps, NY

    This is from a 1958 Chet Herbert ad. I have never seen their roller lifters from that era, and don't understand that picture. It gives the appearance of an anti-rotation square bar situated in slots in the lifters. But that's patently ridiculous. Let's hear from someone who has had their hands on these lifters...
     

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    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  2. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,188

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Keeps the rollers from rotating on the cam face.
     
  3. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 4,685

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Worked as well as any others,you:cool: put them in as a line,all one side on the long key,it flowed in the slot of each lifter and was held from end to end by the block.
     
  4. Wonder if these were intended to be used on a regular flat tappet cam or if they were grinding "roller specific" cams back then.

    Just took another look at the ad and noticed the heading "roller tappet cams ...". I am guessing these aren't just roller tappets for cams, but roller tappets for roller tappet specific cams.
     

  5. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,591

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    The cams were ground with roller lifters in mind, just like today. Chet Herbert was a pioneer in roller cam development for hot rods---I think he had a roller setup in a H-D motorcycle in the late '40s or very early '50s.
     
  6. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,354

    brandon
    Member

    Had a set about 15 years ago....seemed crude at the time, but back when new, it was state of the art....
     
  7. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,784

    khead47
    Member

    Heathen- most Harleys came from the factory with rollers. Tim.
     
  8. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,120

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I bought a Herbert roller cam and lifters in '68 , and the lifters are as described above. there's a slot in the lifter and a piece of hardened key stock that runs the length of the oil galleys in the block and keep the lifters rolling straight on the cam. The oil galley plugs behind the cam gear are replaced by special pieces that were part of the cam thrust system that was part of the kit. I just finished the 327 short block for my car with this cam installed. Other wise I'd post pictures.
     
  9. terryble
    Joined: Sep 25, 2008
    Posts: 541

    terryble
    Member
    from canada

    Harleys have had roller cams/lifters since the twenties or maybe even earlier, that being said I had a Chet Herbert regrind cam in my 47 Knucklehead and it rocked. Kind of funny I just put my cam in a box and sent it off to Chet Herbert and a few weeks later the same box came back with a nicely reground cam and very complete and detailed hand written instructions on instalation. The part I remember was there were no break in requirements.
     
  10. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,591

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Check out a McGurk roller cam setup for 235/261 Chevy sixes sometime; the lifters had a machined flat on the block side, and were kept in line by a piece of strap iron that was screwed to the block with a couple of self tapping screws.
     
  11. TomWar
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 727

    TomWar
    Member

    I ran those lifters with an Isky RR2 Short track Cam in 1965 in a 354 Hemi,
    .060 over in a flatbottom Sanger boat for 3 years no problem.
    about 650 hp 95 mph.
     
  12. turdytoo
    Joined: May 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,569

    turdytoo
    Member

    My understanding was that Chet Herbert either adapted the HD lifter or at least the design to allow valve action that a flat tappet couldn't reach.
     
  13. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,544

    296ardun
    Member

    Ran Herbert rollers in my Ardun (see avatar), the earlier versions had notched lifters and a piece of angle iron that you fit into the engine by welding a couple of bolts upside down in the lifter valley to hold the angle iron, same purpose, to keep the lifters from turning...later I wiped out the rollers, and, told by Chet himself that "we haven't made those since '53, went to the local Harley shop, bought Harley rollers (a little bigger), and fit them into the roller bosses, readusted the valve settings, and went back racing...
     
  14. Jack Gifford
    Joined: Jan 24, 2012
    Posts: 15

    Jack Gifford
    Member
    from Phelps, NY

    Does not compute; no "modern era" V8 ('49 and up) has lifter oil galleys that intersect the lifter bores.

    I'm familiar with many anti-rotation schemes for roller lifters; even designed my own setup for the M/T hemi in my avatar. It's precisely BECAUSE of this familiarity that the Chet Herbert diagram is nonsensical.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  15. Homemade44
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 540

    Homemade44
    Member

    The Chet Herbert roller cams did use a hardened key that you inserted in the oil galley from end to end on the small block Chevy engines to hold the lifters in the proper relationship. We installed one in a 55 Chevy 265 motor which proved to be a big mistake. The 55 Chevy already had oiling problem and this just added to the problem. The motor didn't last very long because of the restricted oil flow. May have worked better in the later motors but not in the 55.
     
  16. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 576

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    pontiac jack-small block chevy oil galleys go right down the center of the lifter bores-had a chet herbert roller as pictured,worked ok but the key stock would limit total amount of lift avalible to you.suppose you guys are too young to remember putting pipe cleaners in the push rods to restrict top end oiling?[dont-pipe cleaner fuzz all over inside of engine]
     
  17. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 576

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    p.s. the oil galley design of a sbc also causes loss of oil pressure if you break a push rod and the lifter pops out of the bore-its the real reason guys buy those "splash" trays that go under the intake-holds the lifters in if you lose a push rod or rocker arm
     
  18. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    73RR
    Member


    ...must be a Pontiac thing....

    .
     

  19. Jack, see the two holes on either side just above the camshaft? These feed oil completely through all the lifter bores all the way thru to the front of the block into the timing chain case area where they get sealed off. Hope that helps, TR
     

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  20. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,120

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am aware there are better lifter guide designs for roller cams available today, and I may change lifters at some point. I'd like to evaluate this setup for myself. The "slot and keystock" design alows a very lightweight lifter, which requires less spring pressure. I talked to Mr Herbert about oil press and volume when I purchased the cam and he said I should have no problems: we'll have to see.
     
  21. Jack Gifford
    Joined: Jan 24, 2012
    Posts: 15

    Jack Gifford
    Member
    from Phelps, NY

    OOPS!! I guess you're right- it's true that I've swapped Pontiacs into anything I owned that came with SBC power. I apologize for my ignorance...

    Thanks for all the responses, and for educating me on SBC lifter oil galleys.
     
  22. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 1,378

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    I've got a Herbert SBC cam and kit still in the wooden box that I bought new in 1963. I understand that early Chevys has a freeze plug in the front of the engine block to retain the rod. Later ones have a pipe plug which was recommended. The only draw-back of this set-up was that if you broke a lifter, you had to pull the front cover to replace one. The Scotty's Muffler A/FD, one of the first Chevys over 200, ran a Herbert cam, but used Isky(?) lifters because of this problem.
     
  23. vh1950
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 34

    vh1950
    Member

    I'm helping a friend clean his garage & getting ready to sell some of his old parts, we found a set of the lifters with the rods, we are looking for the cam.
     
  24. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,610

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Chet Herbert Cams still in business at 15298 El Prado Road, Chino California. There is also a Doug Herbert cams, possibly the son of Chet, says he has been in business since 1949.

    http://www.dougherbert.com/

    Maybe they can fix you up with a cam.
     
  25. vh1950
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 34

    vh1950
    Member

    Here is a pic of one.
     

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