dirt slinger asked for our help, not our opinions. Dont fuck up a good thread. Just the FACTS, man. Slim
Quote: <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Slim Pickens dirt slinger asked for our help, not our opinions. Dont fuck up a good thread. Just the FACTS, man. Slim </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> That is true, Slim. I just got fed up with hearing the Henry generalities brought up as fact (some were, some were the same old myths). If I offended anybody by getting red, I do apologize. There's LOTS to be said in Henry Ford's positive column (I'd be the first to start a list -- merely starting with defeating Seldon's ridiculous "patent" on the automobile in the U.S.). Ford responsible for his son's death? Well. He surely stressed Edsel out. And Edsel (IMO) prevailed often enough on his dad to save the marque ( before the Stock Market Crash hit, BTW), save Lincoln and, moreover, create the Mercury and the Continental. Henry Ford stood up for himself, stubbornly did things his way, but I imagine Henry himself would acknowledge that HE didn't do it all alone.
The theory that Henry was somehow responsible for Edsel's death comes from the fact that Henry kept Edsel under close scruntity and frequently overuled Edsel's decisions. Edsel fought for the end of the model T and and a greater color palete until Henry finally relented and agreed rto build the model A. Edsel was a designer at heart and worked closley with Bob Gregorie, the designer of the '40 Ford. all the stress of running the company and the pressure from Henry caused him to develop an ulcer. When doctors operated, they discovered rapidly spreading cancer. The cause of his death is listed as undulent fever from drinking unpasturized milk. He died shortly after the surgery.
Me -- AGAIN! -- sorry. The man is trying to do a serious academic paper (albeit, he said short, though he chose a complex topic). I honestly think that if he reads this thread carefully, he can get EXTRA points by not only playing up Henry's good decisions but also discussing his luck (and timing), as well as his own son's intellect and resulting suggestions. (There have been a TON of resource links given! Yowza.) Not to hijack the theme, in any sense, but it's a sad, sad Legacy that even those old Ford insiders who recognized Edsel's UNIQUE position to be able to sway HENRY FORD resulted in the poor guy's Edsel's) name on one of FoMoCo's only "failures." BTW, like some other HAMBers, I love the '58 Edsel . . . and the Model A, B, Deuce, Zephyr, Continental, Crown Vic, etc.!
In between a mans first, and last breath, are the things that define him for history and others to judge him by, The more of a mark a man makes in this world, the more his life is put under a microscope, and without knowing his true motivation for any given decision, The end results are weighed in the balance of public opinion, for all to pass judgment on,. Others find a opportunity to ride the other persons celebrity, buy writing books (for profit) with there own slant on how they observed the recorded documents, facts and testimonials, by people that either loved, idolized, hated or had an "Ax to grind" with the person that is the subject of interest. Given the depth of Henry's thought process, his ability to see the very big picture, and the fact he was a very complex man that in my opinion was brilliant, I don't believe it is possible to truly know the real truth,... what he believed in his heart to be right, What his motivations were for any number of things he did, or accomplished,.. or failed to accomplish. It seems easy to sit here and pass judgment in a mater of minutes or hours on a mans entire life,... but it can be said,.. Regardless what you or I personally think of Henry Ford, the things he did, changed not only his life, but our nation as well as the entire world. All these years later, people are still talking about a poor boy that became a man, that liked to make machines and go as fast as he could,.... (Yes, he was one of the original Hot Rodders.) And in the time given him between his first and last breath, He had a part in many things that made significant history,.... But in the end, when he drew his last breath, (as we all will) He left behind a world forever changed by what he was able to accomplish. We should all use our time, between our first and last breath as well. And so it ended. ( In a Packard Hearse)
Another note, Henry Ford legally was in charge of the company in the forties, but after the death of Edsel, he was less and less involved and the company was, for all practical purposes, in the hands of Harry Bennett. Harry Bennett was a cut throat security man and rulled with violence within the company walls. Edsel's wife told the old man that she would sell her stock if he didn't turn it all over to Henry Ford ll, which he did, becausae he didn't want the public to own stock. All of this has been well documented. Henry Ford ll was a brave young man to walk into Harry Bennett's office and fire him.
Worked for Ford Motor Company for 35 years.Remember being forced to work 91/2 hours a day 28 days a month 2 days off a month and they had to fall on sundays.11 minutes personal relief time 1 before lunch 1 after.Assembly lines suck .Hired in at $3.98 an hour in 1972.Slave labor when I hired in everyone I met had 1 2 3 4 or more fingers missing.Not a nice place to work.Very advaserial, miserable heat,stupid management,but over the years with the United Autoworkers Union,it became a very desireable job and Ford motor had some changes in the way they treated there employees,They gave the employee the right to shut his machine down if it wasnt running a good part .Where as before that it was quanity not quality.Instead of adviserial they became a team on how to make better parts and be a better place to work.And it shows much better quality.I owe Ford Motor and the UAW allot and we all do for this country would not be as great as it is with out American Auto Industry
In the 1920's the automobile industry was successful. When soldiers came home from World War II they went out and bought themselves cars. Once it was discovered that owning a vehicle would make traveling much easier, almost every American family went out and purchased one. There were many popular vehicle companies at the time. The most popular was Ford because it cost less, and was affordable. These vehicles though had horrible suspension and didn't go very fast. Many people suffered from back problems from the bad suspension. I think this may of been written by a very young student. http://www.holton.k12.mi.us/teachers/robinson/assets/Harli/1920s.html
The other story about Henry's relationship to Edsel was about the 6-cylinder engine Edsel secretly developed because the V-8 was losing sales to the Chev 6 (or so the story goes)...One day Henry came to Edsel and told him that he wanted him to see his new scrap metal conveyer...when they got there at the top of the scrap metal belt was Edsel's new secret 6, which then plunged into the melting pot, with an admonishion from Henry never to try such a stunt again...
When I started this thread I knew very little about Henry. Now I know an amazing amount and cant wait to learn more. The books I will search for and study also. The opinions of those of this board will be adding an extra dimension to my paper. I believe this will help in writing my paper and explaining that henry wasnt perfect, he was human just like the rest of us. Post #66 by Harms Way would be a great closing to my paper, of coarse not word for word but the idea he thru out there. I have never been excited about writing a research paper until this one. Thanks Hambers. If anyone still has something to say, go for it. The more the better. I would have never thought that this would go this far this quick. I cant wait to read more.
I have 10's of thousands of pages of historical data, articles, publications and even the FBI files on Ford. No Information is more truthful or accurate than that which dates from the times when he still walked this earth. Here are a few tidbits dating from the teens and 20's. First, The Franklin Institute's report, dated in the 20's. .
. Rumors still fly tht Henry wanted one car and one car only, the model T. Read on, read page numbered "28", - The Model T sold so well that it delayed the introduction of a replacement for 8 years. -Demand for the T was so strong that continuous, 24 hour a day construction could not keep up with demand. In the big scheme of things, The model T's own success/demand delayed the new model until demand for the model T had slowed from a peak of 1 million in 132~ days, to 1 million in 10 months. This 1927 article is insightful to say the least. .
There was no relationship, Hitler awarded several manufacturers medals for their triumphs in industry. The rumors still fly about Ford and Hitler but nobody ever speaks of the Grand Cross that Hitler awarded to GM executives James Mooney (among others) at the same time as Ford received an unsolicited medal. -Hitler Admired The American car manufactures and hence awarded Both GM and Ford Chief Executives with honorable medals. Hitler wished that he could build an automotive industry as grand as the American's, and so he based 'His' Volkswagen on American models and production. btw, Similar medals were also sent to executives at IBM as well as General Electric. Probably the biggest reason that the rumors still exist (and are aimed at Ford) is because people have never read up on the subject, they didn't live during that time period, and therefor just repeat age old rhetoric,... perhaps because some have a certain dislike for the man or his company? I don't know. This is part of my collection on the man and the Industry (missing are The Terror of The Machine', Henry Ford's FBI files, My Forty Years with Ford By Sorensen, Henry Ford an industrial pioneer, Triumph of an Idea, Henry Ford’s Own Story and Ford Ideals Being For Good -all of which I have on hard drive). Besides the FBI files on Ford, Probably the most accurate book not written or co written by himself is 'The Public Image of Henry Ford' by David Lewis. Everything stated in that book is based on historical articles from Institutions like Michigan's Wayne State University, the Society of Automobile Engineers Archives, Government Contracts and Fact sheets, Automobile Almanacs as well as from 10's of thousands of newspaper articles dating from 1900 up. The book states facts and does dispel age old rhetoric like "the history of Hitler and Ford', of which there is none. Regarding the Jews and the Dearborn Independent, FBI files/investigations clearly state That Ford, while in his 60's, was led down the garden path by the publisher, writers and editors of The Dearborn Independent, a small newspaper and just one of some 500 companies that Ford owned during the 1920's. As far as There never was 'a relationship', only age old rhetoric and rumors that liable The man, Family and the company that bear his name. Hitler admired The Ford Factories and the way that Ford put America on Wheels. The two never met, never stood in the same room together, never held a conversation and Ford was not a supporter (unlike GM) of the German War Machine, before, during or after WWll. Repeating age old rumors/rhetoric just proves that the masses care not to read and/or learn. Irregardless, Some might find it interesting that GM, not Ford, supplied both the allies and the Nazi Regime with Parts before, during and after WW11, and Alfred Sloan, CEO of GM, ordered all the files burned in order that no one at GM be implicated by Federal Committees when the war ended. "In August 1938, a senior executive for General Motors, James D. Mooney, received the Grand Cross of the German Eagle for his distinguished service to the Reich. "Nazi armaments chief Albert Speer told a congressional investigator that Germany could not have attempted its September 1939 Blitzkrieg of Poland without the performance-boosting additive technology provided by Alfred P. Sloan and General Motors".<sup id="cite_ref-57" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-59" class="reference"></sup> Charles Levinson, formerly deputy director of the European office of the CIO, alleged in his book, "Vodka-Cola":<sup id="cite_ref-60" class="reference"></sup> "Alfred P. Sloan, James D. Mooney, John T. Smith and Graeme K. Howard remained on the General Motors-Opel board . . . in flagrant violation of existing legislation, information, contacts, transfers and trade continued [throughout the war] to flow between the firrn's Detroit headquarters and its subsidiaries both in Allied countries and in territories controlled by the Axis powers. The financial records of Opel Russelsheim revealed that between 1942 and 1945 production and sales strategy were planned in close coordination with General Motors factories throughout the world.... In 1943, while its American manufacturers were equipping the United States Air Force, the German group were developing, manufacturing and assembling motors for the Messerschmitt 262, the first jet fighter in the world. This innovation gave the Nazis a basic technological advantage. With speeds up to 540 miles per hour, this aircraft could fly 100 miles per hour faster than its American rival, the piston-powered Mustang P51." David Farber, author of Sloan Rules: Alfred P. Sloan and the Triumph of General Motors (2002), stated that:<sup id="cite_ref-61" class="reference"></sup> "GM destroyed Sloan's files to protect itself from lawsuits regarding antitrust issues, the neglect of automobile safety and its investments in Nazi Germany." " .
. Henry thought that a man should have time to go out and visit the folks on the weekend, up until 1914, All industry followed a 50 hour week. 5 days at 9 hours and Saturday at 5 or 6 hours This scheme didn't allow for a man to recuperate from the previous days work, it didn't allow for time to visit with your family, it didn't allow the young man to help on the farm (a subject dear to Ford's heart). The standard wage prior to the $5 - per 8 hour day was ~$2.34 per 9 or 10 hours and this wage was barely enough to put shoes on your kids feet or milk on the table. Ford changed all that with the introduction of the 40 hour week and a new idea called 'profit sharing' in the form of a $5 - 8 hour day. Ford also set up a company health unit designed to help wife's and mothers take better care of the family. Ford built Hospitals and opened them Free to the public when all others demanded money. Ford hired Blacks, Jews, paraplegics, Quadriplegics, blind, mute, deaf, Emigrants, Illiterates and even hired the bed ridden to do tasks for the mighty Model T. In the mean time, he built Schools for under privileged children/orphans that would otherwise not afford school. He set up classes for the many immigrants that poured in from the barrios of New York and Los Angeles in order that they could learn to speak English. But the real helping hand came in the form of the $5 day that put food on the table and shoes on the children's feet. In 1914, This was Much to the dismay of American Manufacturers and especially GM. Ford had single handily unchained the worker from the plant and given him money, freedom and a hand up.
Henry Ford with the help of Thomas Edison discovered how to make charcoal from the wood scrap's and saw dust from the factory, his brother in-law E.G. Kingsford (sound familiar) bought them and marketed them and just like the Ford Auto's the rest is history.
Not particularly, As far as Ford goes, I have read 100's of biographies and because I'm a car guy, Ford's life is an interesting one. The much maligned Ford cared about his product, cared about his workers and cared about the welfare of Americans (and the world) as nations, all of which the share holders of other companies could care less about as they filled the dumps with planned obsolescence in hopes of selling you another one in a few years in order to line their pockets. The 'style' of competition that Ford Motor Company and rival GM (Alfred Sloan CEO) went head to head in is commonly known as Fordism vs Sloanism, In the late 20's and up into the 30's Sloan's Planned Obsolescence proved to be popular amongst the dishonest and greedy industrialists of this world. Ford would not have it that way. Fordism vs Sloanism = Ford, the industrialist who stood for quality and Alfred Sloan, the man who invented the idea of planned obsolescence and who had fully implemented a 'death date' into every part of every car that GM built (from 1927 up). Ford wanted to sell you one good car that would last a lifetime (and he did, we still enjoy them today, I have a 31, 39 and a 49 all fully operational) And Sloan, who wanted the car to break in your hands (and they do) in order to force you to come back and buy over and over again, whether from the parts counter or from the new car sales team/show room. Fordism vs Sloanism is a point/counter point as to which is/was better. Things that were properly designed to last for ages (like my Fathers '35), or things that were designed to fill the share holders pockets as well as the city dumps. To say I am a Ford 'fan' is wrong, I admire the integrity and the style that Ford (and others) had prior to GM introducing the world to the idea that every part of every car should be designed to die in X days/months in order to fill someones pockets. -Ford's Legacy is the cars we still enjoy today based on affordability, style and durability. -GM's Greatest invention is and has always been "Planned Obsolescence" -Sloan, CEO GM 1923 to 1956 For those that don't read or don't read history, the choice of manufacturer has put the greedy shareholders in top spot. For those that read, the choice is obvious. If I were a fan of anything, I wouldn't be a fan of the faceless sheeple running out to buy the absolute newest, most shinny chrome plated new cadillac (or chevy truck) that has and will wear the cam lobes down and the transmission out -just after warranty, all to the delight of the General Motors Share Holders. And in part my bias would be based on the fact that GM invented Planned Obsolescence while Ford brought us the 40 hour work week, better wages and clean/safe factories with things like hearing and eye protection long before the cross town rivals $upplied them. . .
I always thought the "High" and "Low" assembly lines were a clever setup to speed production, you got to work on one or the other based on your height.
The Jalopy Journal
