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hemi troubles

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hallrods, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,551

    73RR
    Member

    Valves can stick even with lubrication if the clearance is too tight. We no longer use intake seals unless the customer requires them and then we add a little to the clearance.
    Seals on the exhaust are not used for two reasons; the relatively low valve angle does not readily collect oil at the guide, and, even if a small amount got past the guide it will just go out the exhaust.

    Since you have the heads off you should verify proper stem clearance on all valves. If you have any concerns then a little extra won't kill the life of the engine.


    .
     
  2. hemiphil
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 25

    hemiphil
    Member
    from australia

    george, you need to check your info, HT-812 lifters fit 361-383-413-392-426 chrysler, this is a sealed power part number, check summit webpage under lifters, sealed power HT-812
     
  3. if a valve was to stick first you would bend a pushrod or a valve. some thing has to give. then you would hear a very noticeable miss. i highly dought it is a sticking valve. what kind of springs do you have and does the lash change. i had a sbc that kept making noise and it was a lobe going bad. i would adjust the lash and it would loosen up as it wore down.
     
  4. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    You didn't originally say Sealed Power, & I said "One Company". Specifically Comp Cams #812 is for SB Chevy.
     
  5. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    What type of clearance are you talking about?
     
  6. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,005

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset">I know that when you switch from a stock Hydraulic cam you are supposed to change the relief valve on the oil pump. to lessen the flow to the lifters. Maybe you now need to go back to the stock setup!
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    ...what??????????
    I have seen reference to this before and I call bullshit. The oil pump feeds the entire engine, not just selected parts at selected times....
    The ONLY reason to restrict oil to the lifters if for old timey roller cam setups and that is a whole different subject................................................................................................................ The reason for restricting oil to solid lifters was for more oil to the mains and rods. Why send oil to hydraulics if your not using hydraulics? I blocked off the oil to the lifters and installed restricters in the passages to the rockers. Racing an early hemi you find all the oil in the valve covers by the 4. Not just Chrysler products. Save the oil for the rods and mains
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  7. So what did you find out? Any news?

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  8. 38stude
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 8

    38stude
    Member

    It could be cam bearings i believe. Had similar problem in a 54 331 hemi.
     
  9. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    Tell me what you know
     
  10. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,735

    4tford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a problem on my 392 the number 2 cam bearing was installed wrong but this made no oil to the drivers side rockers. It might be possible the number 4 cam bearing which feeds the passenger side head is not positioned over the oil passage holes in the block and restricting oil flow. The only way of knowing is to pull the engine down as far as cam out to see if you have this problem by running welding rod down the hole and see if it exits through the cam bearing. I also found dirty oil passages in the block and rocker shafts.
     
  11. Cross Rodder
    Joined: Apr 14, 2008
    Posts: 321

    Cross Rodder
    Member

    Having the same problem with the same lifters, watching. one day is bad the next could be fine.
     
  12. bobby_Socks
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 938

    bobby_Socks
    Member
    from ǑǃƕǑ

    Not sure of you have pictures and you mentioned in an earlier post about one side not getting as much oil as the other side and was wondering if you did not get the correct rocker stand on the oil hole that feeds the rocker shaft ? Sorry I do not have a image from the side

    I see this was mentioned back on post nine, sorry for the repeat
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  13. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    This seems like the most logical thing to check next. My father has a 354 that we are going to run without the valve covers just to see the difference. I cleaned all the rocker shafts and ran the oil pump with a drill I have oil coming out of the passages that supply the rocker shafts just not as much on the passanger side as the drivers.
     
  14. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    no problem I did check and they only fit on one side I can't even switch them if I wanted to without reaming out the holes for the adjustable push rods in the heads the push rods are a larger diameter than stock.
     
  15. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,551

    73RR
    Member


    How did you accomplish this? with the rocker arm assemblies installed?
    If not, are the heads just sitting on the block?

    If the rocker assemblies are installed go back to your shaft clean-up...did you run an appropriate sized drill bit through the feed holes (drill bit in your fingers not a drill motor) in the shafts (as well as the rocker arms themselves)?

    .
     
  16. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    Sorry I should have been more clear. I had the heads off cleaned the rocker shafts removed the end caps and ran a brush down them. I removed the for lack of a better name the gear that runs the oil pump from the cam and spun the pump with a drill to see if oil came out of the passages that feed the rocker shafts
     
  17. bobby_Socks
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 938

    bobby_Socks
    Member
    from ǑǃƕǑ

    Can you set the rocker assemblies on the heads an take a picture to post on here ? Would really like to see the rocker stands around cyl 5 on drivers side and 6 on passenger side...
     
  18. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    Here is the passenger side
     

    Attached Files:

  19. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    Drivers side
     

    Attached Files:

  20. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,185

    sunbeam
    Member

    Try checking lash with a feeler gauge to find the ones that are making noise.
     
  21. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member


    I have done that and the noise comes back after adjusting them.
     
  22. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,551

    73RR
    Member

    The question remains.... did you run an appropriate sized drill bit through the feed holes (drill bit in your fingers not a drill motor) in the shafts (as well as the rocker arms themselves)?

    These metering holes are small and very prone to plugging. Many times they do not even get cleared in a hot tank and thus the manual requirements. If all else is proper and you 'seem' to have more oil flowing from any one of the four shafts then this is the first place to look.
    Now, all of this is academic if you have a lifter noise as the rocker oiling is a separate issue.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset"> Originally Posted by sunbeam [​IMG]
    Try checking lash with a feeler gauge to find the ones that are making noise.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    I have done that and the noise comes back after adjusting them.


    This is starting to sound like a worn cam lobe.
    Are you adjusting the same rocker/pushrod more than one time?

    .
     
  23. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I cleaned them out with a welding tip cleaner when I assembled it the second time. I have a oil ring around every joint between the rockers and the shaft it's just a little more on the drivers side than the passenger.

    This is what I have done and learned so far? I replaced a few lifters then cleaned the shafts and oil passages that I could with different bottle brushes? I replaced all the lifters. I then found that the valves were sticking and replaced all valves and bronze guids also removed the seals from the exhaust side. This helped for I have no noise from the exhaust side anymore. I know only have noise on the intake side.I then found an article in the engine rebuilder magazine that stated that seals should be replaced with original type seals so the heads come off once again found a few valves sticking again and replaced the seals polished up the valves and installed. Running the car as it gets close to 160 temp it makes noise again. Reset the valves and got the noise a lot quieter. Start the car up the next day and the noise is back after it reaches operating temp.






     
  24. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,551

    73RR
    Member

    How much pre-load on the lifter?

    .
     
  25. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    About 45 thousandth 1 and a half turns.
     
  26. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,185

    sunbeam
    Member

    What I meant if the noise stops or changes with the gauge then that lifter is one you need to check.
     
  27. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I tryed that and found the noisy ones reset them and the noise eventually came back
     
  28. "so the heads come off once again found a few valves sticking again"

    This sounds to me like not enough oil still. The same thing is repeating. Or maybe the geometry is messed up somehow and putting extra side load on the valve ? Can you see if the valve retainers are hitting the rocker arm? This happened to me when I used old retainers and the valve started pulling through the retainer. Caught it before it sucked a valve but it was noisy and confusing to diagnose.

    The thread is here:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=592267
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013

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