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hemi troubles

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hallrods, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I have a 1955 331 that makes what I think is a lifter noise when it's warm. The car had a solid lifter cam in it that was a little big for the street so I bought a hydraulic cam, lifters, adjustable push rods and matched springs from hot heads about two years ago. I can't remember the box color. The heads were rebuilt also. The bottom end had the 30 over stamps on the pistons and I could still see honing marks in the cylinders so I pulled a main off and the bearings looked good so I left the bottom end alone. I read the search posts for hemi lifter noise and I thought it was the rockers. I pulled out the rocker end caps and cleaned everything out with a bottle type brush and marvel oil and a can of spray sea foam. I thought they were clean but the lifter noise remains. I tried 10w30,15w40,20w50 no change. I now have a 5 gallon bucket of oil in the garage. I ran it with no valve covers on to watch the oil flow and the passenger side doesn't have the same amount of oil as the driver side, but it is getting oil. I called Bob from hot heads and he said I have a few dirty lifters? I push on the rockers when it's running and the noise doesn't change. Any other Ideas?
     
  2. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    Bump for some help
     
  3. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

  4. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    There have been complaints about HH's generic white box lifters. If it actually is the lifters making the noise, then the oiling of the rockers is a different problem. Could be Chinese lifters having a problem. Did you use oil with zinc? Or an additive? As far as unequal oiling of the rockers, each bank is oiled from different cam bearings. One bearing might be installed slightly off, reducing oiling or the passage in the block might not have been fully cleaned. Is there any slack in the adj push rods?
     

  5. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I use oil with zinc diesel truck oil. The adjustable push rods were set at 0 lash with one full turn on install of a dry lifter (not filled with oil). I thought about the cam bearing placement I didn't change the bearings when installing the cam. The motor ran good before I fixed it
     
  6. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    Diesel oil: Supposedly the new CJ oil still has zinc & the car SM/SN doesn't, but I've seen oil marked SM/CJ so someone is lying about zinc content in one or the other..
     
  7. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I work at a marina I use rotella oil
     
  8. Are these engines prone to valve guide wear? With the engine running you could try to GENTLY put a slight side-load against the valve and spring assembly. Using a big screwdriver, or maybe even a ratchet or breaker bar, try to GENTLY pry VERY SLIGHTLY against the valve spring retainer, in a couple different directions if possible. Doing this will sometimes reduce or change a valve train noise if there's too much valve stem clearance. Might at least narrow down your search to a single cylinder.

    Did I mention to do this GENTLY, for obvious reasons? :eek:
     
  9. mopar210
    Joined: May 18, 2008
    Posts: 392

    mopar210
    Member

    do you have the oil passages on the rocker shaft towers lined up correctly on the lower oil flow side ? they will bolt on and look the same but oiler holes will be off .
     
  10. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    He's getting some oil so the stands would be in the right place, if you're talking about coming from the block.
     
  11. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    As I was saying, I'm not sure that the new CJ oil has zinc, much less like the old CI oil had. Have you checked with the engine off if you have any slack/gap on the push rods?
     
  12. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,735

    4tford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Have you milled the heads or decked the block? This could change the angle the push rods sit. Also going from 5/16 to 3/8 pushrods you could be contacting the block and getting a tick sound. I had to open up my push rod holes slightly for clearance. Just another thing you could check.
     
  13. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,551

    73RR
    Member

    0 + 1 is a decent start. The pushrods use 32tpi so you end up with about 0.032" preload. I usually suggest 0.050-0.060 " but if all lifters have the same then all should operate the same.

    If you had solids prior then of course you would have had uniform rocker 'music'.

    Has this current 'noise' been there since installing the cam or is it a recent development?
    Noise at idle or at what rpm?
    Was the cam a regrind or a new core?
    Have you inspected the pushrod tips for wear?
    Have you checked to verify the pre-load?
    Have you been making 'adjustment' to the same pushrods multiple times to maintain the preload?
    How much variation in oil pressure cold to warm?

    .
     
  14. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    "The motor ran good before I fixed it"

    Oh man, that sounds familiar. Replace the word "motor" with about whatever and you can name any number of my projects. Wish you luck getting it fixed.
     
  15. TomWar
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 727

    TomWar
    Member

    I know that when you switch from a stock Hydraulic cam you are supposed to change the relief valve on the oil pump. to lessen the flow to the lifters. Maybe you now need to go back to the stock setup!
     
  16. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    :confused:
     
  17. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I checked top dead center and rotated one full turn and they all seem the same.
     
  18. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    Might just be a case of Chinese lifters.
     
  19. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I checked for clearance and no sign of rubbing anywhere.
     
  20. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    Did you try a stethiscope to find where the sound is coming from?
     
  21. Had the same problem with mine, only in reverse. Had a hydraulic cam with new Comp Cams lifters and had the same noise you had. With the help of Bob at HH, I tried all the tricks mentioned here. I even tried as much a 2 turns pre-load on the lifters. Turned out to be worn lifter bores. I pulled the intake, valley cover and magneto and ran the oil pump with a drill. The cylinders with the noise were bypassing the oil at the lifters to the point of squirting oil out in line with the pushrods as far as the bottom of the heads. HH said that was a common problem on engines with so many miles. Said the only cure was bronze liners in the bores. I couldn't afford that, so I went solid. Now I have uniform solid cam "music" and love it.
    Hope this was help--Bert
     
  22. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I tried a stethoscope and the noise seems to be from 2 and 4
     
  23. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,402

    George
    Member

    Up in the head or down in the block?
     
  24. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    The lifter bore is something that is never mentioned, but needs to be watched for, as some of these engines were released from the factory with oversized lifters.
     
  25. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,551

    73RR
    Member

    ...what??????????
    I have seen reference to this before and I call bullshit. The oil pump feeds the entire engine, not just selected parts at selected times....
    The ONLY reason to restrict oil to the lifters if for old timey roller cam setups and that is a whole different subject.

    Good call Tom, the other subject that 'we' often overlook is undersized lifters that sometime show up in white boxes so it might be useful for the OP to pull and measure them if the issue persists and other remedies are not found.

    .
     
  26. Hh does not get their lifters from china. They are made here in the good old usa. I know this for a fact. The white box means nothing
     
  27. lifter bores get neglected, they do wear also all lifters aren't the same dia have had some that were too tight not enough clearance.
     
  28. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I put the stethoscope on the rockers and two and four sound louder than the rest
     
  29. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    I will try this.
     
  30. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,225

    hallrods
    Member

    Hard to tell if it was there the first time I ran it it had open headers no exhaust
    Noise is at idle and higher rpm but harder to hear
    Cam was a new core
    Push rods were new didn't inspect only few miles on them
    Adjusted them once only a few we're adjusted not the noisy ones
    Oil pressure doesn't change when warm according to the gauge.
     

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