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HEMI Tech- Transmission adapters, flywheels, starters

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm REALLY keeping you guys busy with Hemi tech now! Sorry to post so many of these so close together. Take your time with these. I'll bump them all here and there eventually so we're not getting too burned out :D.

    Alot of people want to run something other than what was attached to their Hemi originally (if anything at all). There are a lot of great adapters available as well as some nice flywheels and "high-torque" starters. Let's see what we can talk about...

    1) Transmission adapters...
    - When is one needed? (I know, I know, just summing it up :rolleyes: )
    - Adapters for manual and automatic?
    - Adapters for REAL early tranmissions?
    - Who makes them and/or where can they be obtained?
    - Who puts out specialty, made to fit adapters?
    - When do I need a bell housing and for what blocks?
    - Extended block adapters?

    2) Flywheels...
    - Stock vs. aftermarket?
    - What's needed for what applications?
    - Inerchangability?
    - Who makes them and where can I get them?

    3) Starters...
    - When is the stock just fine and when is a higher torque starter required?
    - Features of aftermarket that should be noted?
    - Interchangability with other engines?
    - Who sells them?

    4) clutches...
    - What to use for what application?
    - What will bolt right up to the stock flywheel?
    - What replacement flywheels will work with what clutches?

    EDIT: Added clutch topics
     
    pinkynoegg likes this.
  2. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    I'm running a TR Waters adapter to mate my 833 to my 354.

    This is a very high quality piece...better than any I've seen

    Just putting it on tonite...I take some pix.

    http://home.together.net/~twaters/
     
  3. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,721

    George
    Member

    Ignoring the "long tails" All 3 brands have the same bolt pattern. The 8 hole flex plate for the 426 fits the crank after taping the holes.
     
  4. kooldeuce
    Joined: Oct 11, 2005
    Posts: 376

    kooldeuce
    Member

    392 bolt pattern is very close to a late(70'style)sb mopar 340/360 bellhousing.I'm running a aluminum bellhousing from a 70 sb mopar,a stock 340 flywheel,163 tooth ring gear pressed on,a junk yard mini high torq starter from a 89 dodge magnum,Hurst cluth/plate setup for 10.5 mopar,a 64 hemi 4spd,cut the front shaft 1 1/4",a modified b-body clutch fork.A home made 3/4 thick aluminum adapter between the bellhousing and the block.Must use all grade 8 hardened bolts,loctite.I tapped the crank,and used lock nuts as well.Also had a crank hub adapter made with a pilot bearing in it.used a z bar from a 70 Dart. Works great,Good luck. (do it again,nope,I'd buy the best on the market kit,WILCAP:D)
     
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  5. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    "all three brands".....WHICH three brands?
     
  6. QQMOON
    Joined: Oct 7, 2002
    Posts: 1,309

    QQMOON
    Member

    Well I done one a bought one the one i done used a small block Chrysler scattershield a 426 flywheel and a 10 tooh reduction starter the bosch one

    The second one which is in the car now uses a B&M adapter to a BB Chrysler 727 both work well
     
  7. Bored&Stroked
    Joined: Jan 14, 2005
    Posts: 3,835

    Bored&Stroked
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi Guys:

    RE: Complete Specifications for my Tremec 5-Speed to 392 Setup

    For those of you who have not seen my thread on my 392, Wilcap, Sonic, Hays, etc. setup --- checkout the thread down below. It has lots of pictures so you can see exactly what it is all about.

    It took me about 6 months to get it all figured out -- and Pat McGuire at Wilcap worked out a special CNC adapter program to closely fit the Sonic bell housing. For those of you who worry about clutch explosions and want a 1/4'' of steel, this is a pretty cool setup (though not SFI rated).

    Also - it isn't a fricking ugly monstrosity like most of the SBC steel bellhousings (Lakewood, McLeod, etc). I started this whole quest because I just couldn't stand to muck up my hotrod with all that ugly scattershield crap that hangs down to the ground and likes to catch on speed bumps and ruin your day.

    Anyway . . . I better get the hell off my soap box . . . before I fall off:

    Link:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107758
     
  8. Dodge

    Desoto

    Chrysler
     
  9. True, but be aware that the piloting (center locating) method is different between the early and late hemi's. The early version pilots over the outside diameter of the crankshaft flange, whereas the late version pilots on a diameter smaller than the eight-bolt circle.

    Trans adapters usually include a piece that doubles as a flywheel spacer and also a pilot adapter.

    Although possible, I wouldn't recommend piloting it on only the bolt shanks. Too much weight at too high of a speed to take a chance of being off-center.:eek:
     
  10. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    Huh....I never made the connection - Mr. Obvious
     
  11. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    I screwed up when buying my standard trans flywheel. I was under the impression that ALL sbm AND bbm had the same bolt pattern...with the exception of the 426 Hemi which, of course, has the eight bolt pattern.

    I bought a flywheel, took it and the crank spacer/adapter I got from Tom Waters to my machinist to have him drill the extra two holes.

    Simple, right?

    Nope...he had to plug the six originals and drill eight new holes to fit my crank hub. I guess they aren't the same...

    I'll know next time.
     
  12. srosa707
    Joined: Jun 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,559

    srosa707
    Member
    from Sacramento

    I got a stock 53 331. Im gonna pick up the wilcap adapter for a Muncie 4 speed. Will i have to have my flywheel drilled to mount the clutch? Ive never messed with a manual tranny/flywheel/clutch before. My flywheel wont have the holes in it already will it?
     
  13. Bored&Stroked
    Joined: Jan 14, 2005
    Posts: 3,835

    Bored&Stroked
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You are correct - the 426 flywheel has no place to index on a 392 crank flange. Also - the late Hemi has the ring gear closer to the flywheel face - enough to potentially cause problems with starter engagement.

    I originally bought a 426 flywheel - then had my 392 crank modified to add a steel sleeve (pilot bushing area) to center the 426 flywheel. My problem was the ring gear was not where it needed to be. I then spoke to Pat McGuire at Wilcap and bought one of his flywheels -- which indexed on the OD of the crank flange (as it should) and has the ring gear in the correct place. I now have an SFI rated 426 flywheel that is collecting dust.

    I should have listened to Pat/Wilcap the first time around - would have saved me time and aggravation.
     
  14. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    BTT for this guy. I'll have the same set-up also. Would like to know how the flywheel will be effected also for this adapter.
     
  15. MoePower
    Joined: Jul 12, 2004
    Posts: 134

    MoePower
    Member
    from Omro, WI

    yep...the holes are already drilled...
     
  16. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I added some clutch topics to the intro post that might as well be covered here as well. It's inevitable it will come up. Here's what they consist of...

    4) clutches...
    - What to use for what application?
    - What will bolt right up to the stock flywheel?
    - What replacement flywheels will work with what clutches?
     
  17. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,486

    4tford
    Member

    I used the adapter kit from PAW for putting a turbo 400 to my 392 it included the spacer plate (1 inch thick aluminum), mini starter, flex plate, centering ring (crank hub to convertor), 8 (1/2 crank bolts), a tap and a dust cover. The spacer plate had studs that the turbo400 mounted to. It worked out well except when I used the vertical oil filter adapter I had to use a smaller oil filter for clearence. The PAW unit is pricey 600 dollars maybe more now since they are adjusting their prices on their web site.
     
  18. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How was the quality of the PAW stuff? I've been hearing rumors of quality problems with some of their components. You know how rumors work though? :rolleyes: Most of them need to be squashed. I'm assuming for $600 you got an awesome set-up?
     
  19. kooldeuce
    Joined: Oct 11, 2005
    Posts: 376

    kooldeuce
    Member

    Trust me Trust me Trust me!!!If your breaking out the bucks to buy a kit(which by the way is a great idea)Buy a Wilcap set-up.I'm sure PAW and TR-Waters guy have good stuff,and I know they are proven.But nobody,not no way no how,makes a better kit for the Hemi than Wilcap!!If I did all over again I would buy a Wilcap kit with the Wilcap aluminum flywheel.If your running hard go with the Mopar 4spd,Muncie is ok for the stocker.My next Hemi project I'll use the Mopar 4spd again,but this time I'm getting the Wilcap parts!!!!
    I'll still go to the junk yard for my high torq mini though:D
     
  20. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,486

    4tford
    Member

    The kit was part of the project car I bought. I have not had any problems with the setup and it was easy to assemble. But the Wilcap and TR waters pieces look to be higher quality when comparing the pieces. Here is a few shots of the adapter plate it is the anodized piece you see.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148

    Ruiner
    Member

    I've got a '53 331 (the long bellhousing) and a pair of Saginaw 3 spd's (bought em for 20 bucks each at the same swap meet from 2 different guys)...I'm curious what's out there for adapters other than the one I've seen at HH's website, if I remember correctly the Wilcap website had one for a Muncie, is that the same mounting pattern and depth as a Saginaw?...what flywheel and clutch/throwout will I need?...my motor came with the Fluid-drive, so is there a provision on the bellhousing/lower cover for the clutch arm? And if so where the hell do I find a stock style clutch arm assembly? Do any other clutch arms swap over?
     
  22. I used a fifties Dodge bell with a 5 1/8" hole, made an adapter plate, and bolted an A833 O/D on. Used a Weber steel faced aluminum flywheel (146 teeth) and an industrial starter with the solenoid on the opposite side. The industrial crank already had been machined for a pilot bearing so it just took a trip to the local bearing place to get the right bearing for the input shaft.

    Go to the following post to see and exploded view from when I blew the pressure plate up.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36919

    I've got it pretty much back to the original configuration other than some mods to keep the throwout bearing in place and an abreviated scattershield. I wanted to use a lakewood but it would have been a completly different setup
     

    Attached Files:

  23. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    I know the Wilcap stuff has improved with new ownership BUT you need to see the stuff Tom Waters builds....no better quality. And you can use your stock trans shield without mods (on a 727/904)....
     
  24. srosa707
    Joined: Jun 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,559

    srosa707
    Member
    from Sacramento


    Ask the wilcap dude any questions and hell help you out. The adapter for your motor uses the stock hemi flywheel. It lists for 375. IM goin with that setup for sure.
     
  25. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I sent Wilcap a PM. I'm trying to get them to assist with the info here. Hopefully they can answer some of our questions in detail.
     
  26. srosa707
    Joined: Jun 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,559

    srosa707
    Member
    from Sacramento

    hes full of info and is a great guy to work with, I just forgot his name!
     
  27. Bored&Stroked
    Joined: Jan 14, 2005
    Posts: 3,835

    Bored&Stroked
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just sent Pat McGuire an eMail at Wilcap -- to let him know about the thread and to encourage him to participate if he has time. Pat is extremely busy . . . and doesn't check his eMails or login to the HAMB that often -- we'll just have to wait and see.

    When I get to the engine/transmission assembly stage -- I'll post a more complete thread that details everything I've done and exactly what products I've used for clutch cylinders, transmission mid-mounts, etc..
     
  28. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you haven't checked out Wilcap's website, check it out! Great stuff on there!
    http://www.wilcap.com/
    Thanks B&S!
     
  29. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148

    Ruiner
    Member

    I've been looking over my extended bellhousing and the lower cover I can't seem to find anywhere that the stock clutch fork mounts to, am I missing something here or was my fluid-drive bellhousing or the fluid-drive lower cover different?...sadly this is my first manual transmission build-up...I do know I want to keep it a mechanical clutch with an aluminum flywheel and a heavy duty clutch...anyone got any detailed pics of how the clutch arm mounts on an extended bellhousing model?
     
  30. Kerry, I've seen many explosions of flywheels and clutch's. scary stuff, had a friend that had to put an automatic in his 289 cobra after losing his clutch foot.
    I shift my 354 at 8 grand. I'll use a couple of my stock housings on the smaller dodge's that won't be over revved.
    I found a guy that had a whole stack of N.O.S. steel flywheels and must of had serious brain fade when I only bought one for 5 bucks.
     

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