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HEMI Tech - Rebuilds

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Okay! Here it is! The thread so many of you have asked me about!

    Since there are a lot of people that are in process of building or about to build an early Hemi, I thought it would be nice to have a resource where you guys can throw your builds up here. Show us your rebuild process and share your recipes for the builds and why you did this or that.

    I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I need a little hand-holding when I move into new territory. I've received a ton of help from a lot of people here and I'm still learning myself. I have a build brewing right now and it won't be documented as well as I would like it to be, but I will share my rookie build when it's all done.

    I know this thread will go sloooooow, but I think it's a good one and should help a few people just getting into this stuff.

    Post your links, pictures, process, specs, recipes, etc.. Time to show off!

    Thanks guys!
     
  2. BigBlockMopar
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,359

    BigBlockMopar
    Member

    Some 2.5 years ago I bought my first 392 Hemi.
    I made a 250 mile roundtrip in the '62 wagon to pick up the expensive lump of greasy steel.
    I knew the engine was a runner before it spun a bearing so I had some hopes of bringing it back to life rather easy.
    Upon arrival I started disassembly and found more and more stuff I didn't want to see.
    The entire inside of the engine and parts was totally covered with a rubberlike greasy coating.
    Not the kind that would dissolve with some degreaser, thinner, ovencleaner or brakecleaner. Tried them all, to no avail. No, this was the good stuff allright.
    I had to get the engine block lyed to get most of the gunk out. After the cleaning I had the block bored .020" and bought a set of cast pistons and rings from Egge.
    The crankshaft turned out to be another expensive item because one journal had to welded up and ground again. All the journals were taken to .010" undersize and the crank was nitrided again.
    Also made a nice little shoppinglist at PAW and bought a Weiand dual quad intake along with a set of ceramic coated shorty headers from eBay.
    I choose a camshaft that was one step above stock, the '11361', which has the following specs:
    Duration @ 0.050 Lift: Int. 218° /Exh. 218°
    Advertised Duration: Int. 270° /Exh. 270°
    Gross Valve Lift: .440"/.440"

    Will be continued...


    ValveCover:
    [​IMG]

    Hemi in wagon:
    [​IMG]

    Rubbercoated rod and piston:
    [​IMG]

    Greasy stuff and spun rod:
    [​IMG]

    Ovencleaner:
    [​IMG]

    Lyed:
    [​IMG]

    Boring:
    [​IMG]

    .020" Pistons by Egge:
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Keep em comin guys.

    More of my pix soon......

    Rat
     
  5. theoneyouhate
    Joined: May 20, 2008
    Posts: 138

    theoneyouhate
    Member
    from Atlanta

    Can anyone help me out with full specs for a 392. I'm looking for the blueprinting specs and all the tolerances. I have searched the web and I still cant seem to find much. I own the Tex Smith book "the complete chrysler hemi engine manual". there are a a lot of specs in the back but it doesnt seem like thats everything.
     
  6. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,984

    73RR
    Member

    The best place to start when looking for engine building specs is to buy a service manual for the year of your engine. The books may be pushing 60 years old but the info is still golden.


    Update !! An ebay vendor is re-poping the oem manuals.


    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2009
  7. strombergs97
    Joined: May 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,890

    strombergs97
    Member
    from California

  8. Burgy
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Posts: 97

    Burgy
    Member

    Hey man you got to cut StreetRodder some slack, for having a crappy name, and WAY too much advertising, I still can't resist buying that magazine, their tech articles are top notch, and that homemade tool thing in the back (the hand drawn thing) frickin awesome. They probably have more useful "old school" tech articles than half of the other "old school" magazines :rolleyes:

    BTW, I would have never thought oven cleaner could do that, even though it would be my first choice at cleaning a greasy ass nasty oven, that thought would probably have never entered my head out in the garage. That is awesome.
     
  9. My DeSoto block/heads were so bad that it took a hot tank, a bake, another hot tank, and steel shot blasting to get all the crap out...then a final jet wash. The thing that got me was that all the plugs showed a beautiful tan color, and you couldn' even hear it idle...with a badly cracked piston!
    Since it's going to be a Blown/Roller cammed engine, I had to open up the Factory lifter bore access holes to get the rollers to "drop" in (last and first picture). Engine machine work is done, and I will be picking up all my pieces/parts today. Will Post "after" pictures, then.
    Work done includes, right off the bat, Magnafluxing the heads/block/crank...all checked perfect. Block was squared/surfaced, align honed, bored for cast rings, brass freeze plugged , oil galleries reamed. Heads surfaced, intake mounting surface surfaced for fit with the intake, ports cleaned up, chambers polished, clean up ported (exhaust side concentrated on) valves done, spring seats cut for Comp Cams #901 springs, springs shimmed as necessary. Each cylinder was finish bored for it's own piston (.030 egge pistons, 7.5:1), and rings were fitted for Blower use. Roller cam/crank checked for straight, and the timing gear end of the cam finished so that the '55 cam gear set up could be used with the snout cut off the cam. Rods resized, and rotating assembly balanced. Machine work by Jim Thomas...$948.62, including tax. The man is a MASTER, and his attention to detail is phenominal...
     

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  10. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey man! Great links! And if it makes you feel better, I actually own those issues. :eek::eek: HAHA!

    I don't care what magazine it's from. If it's helpful to anyones rebuild, it's worth posting!

    Good stuff guys! Keep it going! I've been without a camera for about a month now and using my cell phone for pictures of progress. I'll have a huge amount of info to share in the next month or so on my 331 rebuild, including oil holes and head swaps, rocker business, and all the usual stuff.
     
  11. moparmonkey
    Joined: Aug 14, 2009
    Posts: 564

    moparmonkey
    Member
    from NorCal

  12. Well it's actually Thrashing Cows....but the ocasional deity refrence is appreciated.... :D
     
  13. jsrail
    Joined: Sep 21, 2007
    Posts: 112

    jsrail
    Member

    I'm not sure if this is the thread to post to, but I am in the planning stages for a hemi to eventually go in my '50 Hudson Coupe. I picked up a '55 C300 331 w/ dual quad manifold. What I have is the block honed (possibly bored) and line bored w/ main caps, heads with what looks like a valve job done, adjustable rockers, original dual quad manifold, timing cover, harmonic balancer, melted piston (looks like someone put the alum. piston w/ rods into a hot tank..ouch!), rods w/o the caps, hurst motor mounts, other small odds and ends. I've purchased an original oil filter (not sure if I will use) and a modified 340 oil pump. No valve covers.

    I would like to build a nice street coupe and maybe take to the track once in a while (but no dragster). I want to be able to have it as a daily driver and a cross country trip runner (for meets). These two ideas may be in too much conflict, I'm hoping you guys can help me with it.

    I was thinking of o-ringing the heads and drilling out for the larger head studs, not that I need it, but if I ever wanted to make it a real nice runner, it would help. I kind of like the idea of running the dual quad manifold like original, but darn if these Hemi's don't call for a blower. But, blowers may be way out of my price range. I can get new Edelbrock Performer cheap w/ adapters to run on the dual quad manifold. I guess blowers and daily drivers don't work well?

    Is there any set-up I can run on pump gas and hit the track for fun? Am I restricted to 8.5:1 compression on pump gas? A shop that's rebuilding my Dodge 315 Poly says I can't go more than the stock 8:1 in it on pump gas.

    Are cast pistons and Poncho rods the way to go? Like I mentioned, I don't have the rod caps and don't know what shape the rods are in, the pistons are melted almost beyond recognition. I hear you can run stock Poncho rods with some modifications. Should I be looking for a used set of stock rods?

    So many things I've got to learn. So any help is greatly appreciated. I pour over all the other sections here, but with short-term memory problems, it's tough (I wish I was only joking guys). I try to make lists, but so many what-if's.

    P.S. Forgot to mention, we have oxygenated gas out here in AZ, if that makes any difference. Usually most stations have 87, 89, & 91 octane. I need to use what we got around here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  14. Here's some of the after pictures. A few days before we headed South for the Winter, we fired it up...with the Blower and 2x4's. Didn't even get a full turn on the crank, and it fired up and ran beautifully. The Roller Cam and retro lifters are worth the bit of extra work I needed to do to get the rollers in...:D
     

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  15. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey Jay! Wow! You weren't kidding! Lots of questions. Yeah, that's a lot to answer in one thread. Start that thread we talked about and I'll get you all linked up through the Index and related threads. Will be easier to focus on each aspect of your build this way. You have lots of great questions and some of the answers are going to be "overkill! Not needed." :D
     
  16. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think you're telling a big fat lie. How would we know unless you provided VIDEO! :D;):D:p

    That thing is awesome!
     
  17. SCOOTER - if you want to hear it, I've got a few seconds of a crummy cell phone start up video... I can send it to you if you send me your email. I can't seem to get it on here. It DOES sound awesome.....
     
  18. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here you go buddy! Now get that batter charged so that Pertronix will stay lit!

    [​IMG]

    That thing is going to be an ANIMAL!
     
  19. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,984

    73RR
    Member

    As Scooter said, sit back this winter and read through his HemiTech section...it will take awhile!!

    Two things I will mention from your list: Use a stock oil pump, either version. They are available.
    And, 10:1 compression is our standard for Hemi rebuilds, on pump gas...and I'm not convinced most customers continue using premium...but they don't come back and complain either.

    .
     
  20. JSRAIL - You do NOT have to go through all that added expense to get your Hemi up and running. My DeSoto engine, except for the Roller Lifters/Cam, is basically a bone Stock rebuild...with a LOT of attention to machining tolerances and parts quality...and a little extra parts fabrication. Put your rebuild money where it will do you and your engine the most good. Once it's all bolted together, all the whizz-bang parts will be covered up anyway. Try these people for parts. They stock a LOT of NOS parts, and excellent quality New Manufacture. I bought my pistons/bearings/gaskets, etc from them, and all the parts except the pistons were quality American manufacturers. My Machinist miced the pistons and they all miced out to well within specs...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chry...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
    What 73RR said, too. The Hemi's will be able to run on regular (87 Octaane) pump gas with a bit higher compression than other Mfgr's engines, due to the Hemi combustion chambers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  21. jsrail
    Joined: Sep 21, 2007
    Posts: 112

    jsrail
    Member

    Are you saying the new modified 340 hi flows shouldn't be used? I already have one I picked up from another member here (it was missing). What does "either version" mean, did they have two types of stock oil pumps?

    10:1! Cool, I'm glad I'm not going to have to run stock c/r and not being able to afford a blower, it's nice I can go that high.

    I will get a thread going soon, and I have been reading all the Hemi sections here, lot's to take in.

    I'll check out your source 345desoto, thanks.

    Thanks again scooter and 73rr,

    Jay
     
  22. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,131

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    These early Hemi's are 50 years old and ran non detergent oil, thats why they look so sludged up inside.

    Ago
     
  23. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,984

    73RR
    Member


    Yes, there are two styles of pumps with slightly different mounting foot print. For Chrysler, 51-55 and 56-58. You can rebuild your stock pump; you can install a 56-58 354 main cap and use the late pump; or you can swap in the 340 pump, pay the additional costs, hope that the new shaft does not break, and have the same oil flow (ok, within 3% or so...)

    Just about every question you will ask in the first month has likely been asked and answered in the tech section. There is alot of discussion on the oil pump issue....

    .
     
  24. I checked and rebuilt my Stock pump. Rebuilding consisted of completely dismantaling the pump, including removing the relief valve and spring and soaking in carburetor cleaner. The only thing I had to replace was the rock hard "O" ring that seals the bottom plate to the housing, and making sure the relief valve was free. Got it from a guy that thought it was shot. It holds 45 lbs pressure at fast idle. You should be fine with your 340 pump...
     
  25. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  26. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,755

    George
    Member

    Discussion on the Webrodder Forum some time back about the 3% increase. Doc in the 315 build mentions a 25% increase where the usual comment is 3%. He said that is new vs new, rebuilt pumps arn't welded up to correct erosion in the body so the difference can be up to 25% depending on erosion. The new Melling pumps don't cover all Hemis.
     
  27. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,984

    73RR
    Member

    The 3% that I use is a number from Mellings. Several years ago (could be 10-15...time goes fast these days) they flow tested a 340 hv and one of their m-50 units and said that the 340 hv flowed 3% more. It was not important at the time so I did not keep track of the test but perhaps Mellings could offer current information if someone asked nicely.

    .
     
  28. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,755

    George
    Member

    That's the accepted comparison of new vs new, a measly 3% increase. There are a number of Hemis that rebuilt is the only thing available & the contention is that there may be a considerable degradation of flow on these, maybe 25%, a consideration if new isn't available.
     

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