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HEMI Tech: Oil systems- filters, pumps, pans

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. Idahorocks
    Joined: Nov 12, 2008
    Posts: 155

    Idahorocks
    Member
    from Spring, TX

    It's a Carter A68301 oil pressure safety switch. It cuts off the fuel pump when oil pressure drops below 6 psi. I think it is also wired to the ignition terminal so the pump runs while you are cranking.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  2. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,461

    73RR
    Member

    Well, at least I'm consistent....;)



    Does this Carter switch also cut the ignition?

    .
     
  3. BashingTin
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 270

    BashingTin
    Member

    73RR asks a really good question. I imagine cutting off fuel wouldn't protect you fast enough...
     
  4. I thought the real reason for the oil pressure switch was to shut down the electric fuel pump in the event of an accident to prevent a fire from occurring, or at least continuing to be fueled by a running electric pump after the engine quit. i.e. engine stops due to collision, oil pressure goes away, shut off the fuel pump.
     
  5. That's why I did it in my 31 Pontiac and 59 Plymouth.
     
  6. I've got a momentary switch that bypasses the hobbs switch so I can prime the carb if she's been sitting for a while w/o starting.
     
  7. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,461

    73RR
    Member

    There have been various low pressure switches offered through the years. Mopar Performance, ok, Direct Connection, offered a switch for the race crowd that was intended to cut the ignition if oil pressure dropped to 'x' psi thus saving an expensive engine. I have seen various switches (that appeared to be nothing more than mercury switches) for cutting electric fuel pumps in collisions.
    I was not familiar with the OP's Carter switch and wondered if it could be used for either/both.

    .
     
  8. BashingTin
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 270

    BashingTin
    Member

    If shutting down fuel supply in case of an accident is your main concern;

    Someone shared with me a switch found in the trunk of a Ford Taurus that shuts off the fuel pump in the event of an impact or if the car turns over. I'm sure a lot of later model cars have similar switches. Using something like this instead would keep the whole system simpler, and closer to the fuel tank.
     
  9. may have missed it but other then hot heads oil pan #21805 at $ 480.
    what other choices do I have for my 54 331 hemi? The one on ebay are all for 55 and up. and the hemi kit I got has no oil pan
     
  10. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Are you wanting a stock type pan, or a race type?
     
  11. looking for either stock or racing with rear sump not to picky at present there is none in the pile of parts I bought

    the 2 I have found are racing HH for $480 and one out of Austria $400 plus $175 to ship

    The previous owner through it away (he was a big Hot Heads fan probably has $5000-7000 in parts from them) and another $800 + in machine work
    He bought the best parts even sprung for the 10.0to1 ROSS Pistons. He got a divorcé and just lost interest I picked up the dissembled engine for my 1929 A SDN wont say it was cheep but less the .30 cents on the dollar
    so the A is getting a hemi instead of a flat head

    All that's missing is thrust plate for cam, good head, rod, main bolts a gasket set and the oil pan

    Everything else is there from air cleaner to oil pump and pulleys to trans adapter and all parts are new.

    Adapter is for 727 would like to trade it for gm automatic
     
  12. check out the thread on the HH oil pump failures
     
  13. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Hot off the press.

    At last, position your spin on filter where YOU want it to be!! This kit consists of the following. My cast oil filter mounting plate which bolts directly to your engine block. These plates are sand cast in the U.S.A. Not as smooth and shiny as billet machined parts, but that is not what this is about.
    Added to the plate is the rotating oil filter conversion mount. This is a genuine Mopar part, and yes, it too is made in the U.S.A. The through bolt allows the rotation of the filter assembly to the position you want. It not only allows for clearance where you need it, it also allows for cleaner oil filter changes.
    As cast, these will accept the smaller diameter (2.921 inch) filters ,both long and short, such as the WIX 51348XP or the WIX 51516XP. If you feel the need to use a larger diameter (3.66 inch) filter, such as the WIX 51515, that option is available also with some minor machine work done on the cast mount face.
    When used with the smaller diameter filter, the kit is less than 4 inches from block mounting face to the outer edge of the filter.
    Along with those options, I am also offering this kit with refurbished rotating mount adapters, which save a few dollars in your pocket. All necessary gaskets, bolts, and O-rings are included in all kits. Oil filters available but not included.

    I am also now offering a cast aluminum basic spin on filter adapter which mounts the filter straight out, like the old original R.E.V. adapter.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,328

    George
    Member

    Last time I checked the Mopar Performance 90 adaptor was something like $125 with a block plate for the LA engines. Ford Motorsport had the spin on adaptor by itself for $55.
     
  15. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    That's all good George, but once again neither of those have anything to do with my product. The old LA adapter is useless for an early hemi, and the Ford adapter..besides being Ford, is offset differently, and is not as compact as the one I use. But thanks for your comments. I was expecting them.
     
  16. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    TR,

    The straight on adapter with a short filter is very useful.

    Thanks

    Ago
     
  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,328

    George
    Member

    $$$???:confused:
     
  18. Was studying some of my 55-58 Chrysler 331/354 oil pumps and associated parts recently while figuring out how to put a later (57/58) pump onto an early (55/56) rear main bearing cap. BEWARE as there are many slight (and barely noticeable) differences between the two families of parts, including height of the main bearing cap pump mounting boss, intermediate shaft length, and difference in pump shaft lengths. Simply installing the late pump onto an early cap will result in the drive tang engaging less than intended. And all of this is with original, stock, unmolested parts. Mixing and matching parts could make some combinations that will not survive. As said previously, these details need extra attention when working with these engines.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  19. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    You are correct,
    I adapted a 340 Mopar Melling pump to my 354 and had to fine tune the fit and clearance issues. Make sure the intermediate shaft can't move vertical or you will loose oil pressure.
    Other issues with the main bearing cap and alignment. The new pumps have stretch to yield bolts, and they are not designed to be reused. I replaced mine with black Allen bolts and safety wired everything. It is not just a bolt on and fly. I believe some of the issues people had with the Hot Head adapted oil pump had to do with not checking the overall setup.


    Ago
     
    Fuelaltereds4life likes this.
  20. All of these are often overlooked, and the result can be catastrophic engine failure.

    Actually those are "type AA place head" capscrews and are not torque to yield. They are a better fastener than plain old hex head capscrews for applications with vibration, and can be reused. Here is an explanation of how/why they work:

    Place bolts are free-spinning, self-locking hex head screws used to prevent
    loosening due to vibration. The circular recess under the head and
    slots in the top of the head work together to cause the head to form an
    elastic flexing of the head as it is tightened. Its one-piece locking design
    eliminates extra parts and extra installation steps saving time and money


    Another explanation can be found at: https://www.earnestmachine.com/technical-library/hex-bolts-screws/type-aa-hex-lock-bolts.aspx

    I believe the only way they would come loose on that oil pump cover is if they were not tightened properly. Your safety wiring certainly gets the job done too, nothing wrong with that!


    Right on! If no one double-checks it, it is a very dangerous gamble to assume it is all right.
     
  21. Arominus
    Joined: Feb 2, 2011
    Posts: 394

    Arominus
    Member

    Does anyone besides Hot Heads sell a windage tray for the 392? Just looking into my options...

    Ishihara Johnson sells a steel or teflon crank scraper for the 354 and 392. The steel one is $95 and the teflon is 225. Ill be going with a steel one and setting the clearance around .030ish. I'm not going to spin it up crazy fast, but this is worth some power over 3,000rpm.

    http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Chrysler_early_hemi.html
     
  22. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,461

    73RR
    Member

    The Mopar 340 scraper can be made to fit if you have modest fab skills.

    .
     
  23. DSC_3381.jpg They're pretty simple to make if you have access to a bead roller and a spot welder.

    A sheet of steel, a couple of pieces of spring steel on the sides to hold it steady inside the sump and 4 bolts into the block casting holes that are already drilled and tapped.

    Don't mind the carnage. That happened when the bolt fell out of the new Hot Heads oil pump cover. :-(

    You can see where the 4 legs are spot welded on and you can also see the 2 dimples on each side where the spring steel stabilizers are attached.

    DSC_3380.jpg DSC_3380.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
    Arominus likes this.
  24. Arominus
    Joined: Feb 2, 2011
    Posts: 394

    Arominus
    Member

    I have both, I like that idea, I'd put some more drainage in the pan itself but, yeah... I really like that.
     
  25. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 334

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Not for everybody but a new billet 354/392 billet oil pump is coming to market. Also has an adjustable pickup to work with virtually any oil pan and pressure can be adjusted. Will be available in the coming months, price TBD.
    [​IMG]
     
    Arominus and Dog_Patch like this.
  26. That's a stock hemi windage tray with a bit removed to clear the filter line for the 340 pump.
     
    Dog_Patch likes this.
  27. Arominus
    Joined: Feb 2, 2011
    Posts: 394

    Arominus
    Member

    Hot damn, that looks nice.
     
  28. 56rbtruck
    Joined: Jul 26, 2013
    Posts: 5

    56rbtruck
    Member

    I’ve read through all 9pages of this thread. I’m confused on what to do on my 341desoto. Short block is together. I’ve got a ton of money invested in doing this motor right.
    Oil pump choices, 340/HH adapter, M50 Melling, and a used low mileage 60year old stock pump. I have the HH intermediate shaft with the Crane gear for the billet roller cam.
    I’ve read all the knocks on HH/340 adapter, it scares me.
    Will the M50 work with the HH intermediate shaft. I read in this thread a post that said the pump input shaft was .1” shorter than the stock desoto? True? Would it work with it shorter?
    Then the stock pump choice with the floating pick up. I could disassemble this and install new soft parts. I know this pump has low mileage. Will the HH intermediate shaft work with this combo to facilitate an A engine distributor?
    Please if you respond don’t offer hunches or guesses. Desoto, I do not want to suffer what you have gone through. TR I’m thinking you know the answers to my questions. Thanks for the help!
     
  29. Whatever your choice, if you use a 340 high volume pump, make sure the intermediate shaft and driven shaft in the pump are hardened.

    As far as I know, HH components still aren't hardened, nor can they be hardened. Wrong type of steel.


    ...and a stock oil pump housing will, most likely, be worn a bit so a rebuild kit will only be marginally effective.
     

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