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HEMI Tech- fuel pumps and covers- timing, valley and valve/rocker

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jul 5, 2006.

  1. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,178

    73RR
    Member


    The 'other' options are to stay with Mopar, either small block or big block parts. The small block t-c cover requires some machining/fussing and the B-RB assembly mounts with adapters but requires aditional plumbing for the heads to pump connection. I have the block to housing adapters but lack of consumer interest keeps the remainder of the 'package' on the drawing board.
    We have done both swaps, both work well.

    Here is the B-RB on top of the fat Moon cover:
    [​IMG]

    We haven't done a sb cover lately so no pics.

    .
     
  2. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Curious how many guys have tried the aftermarket FirePower valve covers being produced. Any one try the plug tubes?
    I emailed the ebay seller a couple different times explaining the 3 different tube lengths, but they choose to ignore me.
     
  3. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,672

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member


    Are you speaking of PAW diffirent shoe box covers or is there another vendor?
     
  4. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    The China reproduction ones on ebay.
     
  5. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,672

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Have not seen them.I just don't ebay enuff.
     
  6. Godspeed
    Joined: Sep 5, 2005
    Posts: 357

    Godspeed
    Member

    Gentlemen,
    I am looking for some information on the stock 354 Hemi Valley cover. Note that I am trying to make this engine look somewhat stock on the outside (not add on breathers or finned covers).

    I see the baffle plate on the bottom of my valley cover and what seems to be little pieces of rubber material stapled to the bottom of the baffle plate (see picture below). I believe that this is to make the air into the stock breather cap go into the crankcase before is exits from the road draft tube.

    QUESTIONS:
    1) Does anyone know what the material is that was stapled to the bottom of the baffle area?
    2) Can anyone remember if it was a pretty good seal from the valley cover baffle plate to the heads and block?
    3) Has anyone fabricated/found/bought/modified a valley cover baffle seal replacement?
    4) Was this gap covered by a sheet of rubber, or maybe a wrap-around seal like on the ends of an oil pan, or?

    [​IMG]

    I was hoping to use the PCV out of the road draft tube, but I realize that if the PCV is sucking air directly from the stock breather cap on the front of the cover, not much crankcase ventilation is happening. The baffle must be there to promote flow through the crankcase from the breather cap to the road draft tube (and not just flow across the valley). A good seal is needed to make that work.

    Here is a picture of the top of the stock 354 Hemi Valley Cover, I have not seen another around in a while and I thought some fellow HAMB people might need it:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  7. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,981

    George
    Member

    Rubber of some sort, make a template out of cardboard.
     
  8. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    It appears to be a rubber/cellulose material. Kind of hard to tell after being oil baked for 50 years.

    Seems to extend beyond the metal by about 3/16" on all edges.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Godspeed
    Joined: Sep 5, 2005
    Posts: 357

    Godspeed
    Member

    TR Waters,
    Thank you for your help and the pictures!

    Do you have an idea of whether this rubber celluose material formed a seal on the inside of the block/heads area? I have a theory that it did, but your feedback to confirm is greatly appreciated.

    I will probably get a piece of high temp silicon hose (split lengthwise) to replace it. I know that this would not be a factory original material, but I think it would hold up better, and no-one will be able to see it anyway. My original rubber/cellulose piece disintegrated to the point where there was just small bits left under the staples. Your pictures gives me a much better idea of what was supposed to be there.

    Thanks!
     
  10. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    I'm not sure it's a great idea to use a later Mopar water pump just because it is Mopar....it might be that other pumps flow more. Like a lot of things, we all operate without any real knowledge of what is in fact what.

    I'd like to see a 'dyno' test of water pumps - flow curves over an RPM range - and of all types and makes of water pumps. That way we could actually learn which pumps works best.
     
  11. I was fortunate to pick up a NOS 354 Chrysler Hemi and here is a picture of the valley cover with the rubber seal.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. I've never really worried about the rubber seal. I think it's only useful if you are using the oem breather on the front filler and the draft tube.

    On my coupe I have a filler at the front that seals and have a grommet & pvc replacing the draft tube. Both valve covers have breathers where it can draw air through.

    On my dragster I just used the upper tin and welded a mopar freeze plug over the draft tube hole with breathers in both valve covers.
     
  13. Godspeed
    Joined: Sep 5, 2005
    Posts: 357

    Godspeed
    Member

    Wow! A NOS piece! HemiDeuce, thank you for the picture, this helps! Can you tell if it would actually seal to the block and heads once the valley cover is installed?

    The guys here on the HAMB are great! Where else could I ever get this type of information!
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  14. I don't know for sure it it seals to the valley, but I would think it does.
     
  15. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    The rubber does seal against the lifter valley.
     
  16. >Nash<
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 2

    >Nash<
    Member
    from Dodgeville

    Hi QuickHemi. I was doing a search on this subject and found your front cover. I've got a 57 354 truck motor that has the very bulky two piece front cover. I know the early 331 car front cover will work, I'm just searching my options. I have yet to find a suitable aftermarket replacement so am concidering fabing up my own. How did yours work out? You said you used a SB Chevy lower, how did the front pan seal, along with the front pan bolts line up? Looks great, good job.
     
  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,981

    George
    Member

    I see you found the HAMB, you may want to do an intro. I believe he meant a SB Mopar cover, an LA.
     
  18. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,178

    73RR
    Member

    yeah...the shiverlay is a completely different design....
     
  19. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,981

    George
    Member

    the only benefit I can see of this design would be if you plan on changing cams often, if it was left as a 2 piece.
     
  20. >Nash<
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 2

    >Nash<
    Member
    from Dodgeville

    Ya I've lurked around here for a few years now just never had a reason to post. I wondered if you were the same George as over on Hot Heads. There's a wealth of knowledge to be had on here. This'll be the first of these motors that I've done so I'm really looking forward to it. It's goin in 31 coupe on duece rails, 4 inch bell, 9 inch with a four link, haven't decided on a trans yet. Gonna be a pretty traditional car but I come from a drag race background so it'll see the track from time to time so it'll have a race influence.
     
  21. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,178

    73RR
    Member

    The subject of fuel pumps has come up again regarding what will interchange.
    On a recently finished 330 DeSoto we used an LA pump, straight bolt up, no whiz-bang spacers.
    I have added a Fuel Pump Replacement page to my website and have several photos of the LA/DeSoto fitment.

    I will, as time permits, do the same for the Dodge/Chrysler stamped tin cover and the early 331 cast cover.

    Update, 3-5-19.
    I will add photos and info to my website for the stamped tin covers used on the Dodge and Chrysler.
    Although the ½" spacer would work, for the examples I checked, the spacer needs to be closer to 11/16" to match up the sweet spot.

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    loudbang and town sedan like this.

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