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HEMI Tech- fuel pumps and covers- timing, valley and valve/rocker

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jul 5, 2006.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks Bugman for bringing this to my attention. Was trying to figure out where to work this subject in. So here goes...

    1) Timing Cover...
    - What stock covers are interchangable between what makes and models?
    - When does a stock cover HAVE to be exchanged? (I.E. cam change)
    - What covers need to be considered for what application? (I.E. water pumps, front drive ignition, front drive blower, etc.)
    - Advantages of replacing the stock cover and what should be considered as far as components and modifications? (I.E. fuel pump provisions)
    - What and where to get it?

    2) Valley covers...
    - What stock covers are interchangable between makes and models?
    - Why replace the stock cover?
    - Features of covers that should be considered? (PCV valve provisions, oil fillers, breathers, etc.)
    - What and where to get it?

    3) Valve covers...
    - Stocks vs. aftermarket?
    - Breathers or no breathers?
    - Covers for adjustable rockers?
    - What covers for what applications?
    - Where to get them?

    4) Fuel pumps...
    - Stock or high flow?
    - What makes and models are interchangable?
    - What other pumps can be adapted for use with your Hemi?
    - Where and what to get?
     
  2. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148

    Ruiner
    Member

    I'm running a hi flow 340 (SB Mopar) fuel pump with an adapter (length of the LA pump arm too long for the Hemi)...the stock ones are few and far between, and I'm sure they're fine for street motors if you've got one...but it's simple enough to find a SB Mopar fuel pump and adapter from HH's website to swap over...

    I'll be machining my own finned aluminum valley cover with a PCV/breather and it's possible I might have castings made if I can get a decent quote on them from someone...

    I'll also be using the stock '53 331 timing cover/pump unless I find something else down the road that fits that I like better
     
  3. I'm running a stock timing cover and valley cover. I put a rubber grommet in the hole the road draft tube was in and put a PCV valve there.

    I've got an old set of chrome valve covers (can you say patina) with breathers on each one.

    Can't find a good picture of the fuel pump. I used an nos AC hemi mechanical pump and have a Holley Blue pump as an auxilery pump. I am running Strombergs so I have a high pressure regulator followed by a low pressure regulator to step it down to 2.5 pounds. I discarded the bottom portion of the AC pump and bolted on a Holley high volume section.

    The Holley blue pump is in the middle of the system for priming and just for. It's hooked up to a momentary switch to prime and a toggle switch and oil pressure switch (stops the pump if the engine dies) for continuous use. If the temps are around 100 on the highway it tends to vapor lock a little on just the mechanical pump. Switching on the electric pump resolves it.
     
  4. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    First...the Tex Smith book is WRONG when they state all IND's have that heavy cast cover and extra water holes like the '51 to '53 engines.

    They don't..

    Second...they also state that '55 and up Chrysler engines have a seperate water manifold...only the '57/'58's do....

    Third...If you have a blower manifold with a front mounted pop-off valve on a 55/56 Chrysler you will most likely have to run a 392 pump and a Hot Heads AN-style water crossover due to the pop-off springs hitting the front cover.
     
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  5. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good tip man! Thanks for adding that! I've found a few things in the Tex Smith book myself that don't quite make sense.
     
  6. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  7. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,489

    4tford
    Member

    I'm using the hotheads valley cover modified with a breather tube to look like stock and the oil fill on the rear of the cover for a pcv location.
     
  8. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148

    Ruiner
    Member

    krooser, does the pump/cover/crossover setup for '55/'56 only apply to industrial motors, or is it any of the motors from those years?
     
  9. Bugman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2001
    Posts: 3,484

    Bugman
    Member

    Back in the day, Moon made timing covers for the Chryslers. They were made to bold a Hilborn pump to them, although block off plates were also avalible. Mine was run hard enough that it cracked and has a weld going up the side. It has no fitting for a standard mechanical pump, so an electric would be necessary.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm not sure if the quality is as it used to be, but MOON still makes them in three different styles for Chrysler. Been thinking about getting one.

    Are there any aftermarket covers that still use the fuel pump or do they all elliminate it?
     
  11. Bugman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2001
    Posts: 3,484

    Bugman
    Member

    I saw one at Back to the 50's, but I didnt get any pics and dont remember the brand. It wasn't a big name, so it may have been a 1 off. It was cast aluminum and non-finned I believe.

    If one was handy with a tig welder, you could weld on an adapter to use a factory pump.
     
  12. Bass
    Joined: Jul 9, 2001
    Posts: 3,327

    Bass
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    My Howard timing cover has a flat on the passenger side that would allow you to run the stock fuel pump on a 331 if you so desired. The holes would have to be machined, but there's a spot for it.

    I used a Holley electric pump and Holley regulator on the 331 in my Model A. Seems to be working great so far.

    Just a minor tip: Big Block Chevrolet fuel pump block offs are the same shape and bolt pattern as the 331 fuel pump...which is also the same shape/pattern as 440 Chrysler I believe. I have a chrome block off from Summit on my 331.
     
  13. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    All passenger car motors I've seen have the cast in crossover...my 300B does...
     
  14. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  15. Yes it is the same part. I have an industrial 354 (LP fueled) that had the exact same cast iron fuel pump block-off plate as a 361 industrial that I stripped. I know for certain the two engines have the same pattern.
     
  16. HemiRambler
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 4,032

    HemiRambler
    Member

    Here's some Hemi stuff I've either acquired (or made) over the years
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Soviet
    Joined: Sep 4, 2005
    Posts: 716

    Soviet
    Member

    Holy hell rambler, nice work. More pics of that stuff please? Hows it all work?
     
  18. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,752

    George
    Member

    The long BB Chevy water pump clears the stock front cover on 55-56 Chr.
     
  19. Machinos
    Joined: Dec 30, 2002
    Posts: 761

    Machinos
    Member

    For mine I've got the long BB Chevy pump with Hot Heads adapters, a 392 water crossover, and the stock stamped timing cover. All fits (except for the stock water pump pulleys, unfortunately).
     
  20. No, all the aftermarket covers are intended for serious racing and/or fuel injection, not just dress up of a stocker with mech. fuel pump.

    Here's a Thompson cover.

    .

    [​IMG]
     
  21. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,752

    George
    Member

    That's the way I did my 331 also.
     
  22. HemiRambler
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 4,032

    HemiRambler
    Member

    Thanks Boris, but I can only take credit for the valley cover.

    The "oil pan" is actually a bottom end girdle - complete with trap doors and machined very nicely. To install it I machined the main caps and enlarged the pan bolts up one size. I never found out who origionally made it - I bought it 20 years ago at a local speed shop -virtually for scrap weight- it's destined to go on my homebuilt dragster.

    The Timing Cover is a (possibly one off) unit from Donovan(?). Designed possibly to run twin fuel pumps - or maybe a front mounted distributor with a fuel inj. pump - I honestly can only guess at it's origional intentions. Never heard anything about them or even saw another - It's cast and two piece - it so closely resembles my Donovan cover that I assume they made it.

    I'd try to grab odd ball hemi stuff, but that was when it was cheap - seems nearly impossible to latch onto anything lately.

    Now I look at all the parts I thought were too much and want to kick myself:( Glad I grabbed what I could.:D


     
  23. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Since we're on the subject of covers. Do you guys like the oil fill option integrated into the valley cover if you put an aftermarket cover on? What seems to work the best? Also, orginal valley breather or no? I was planning on venting the rocker trains, but wasn't sure about the valley area. What are your thoughts.
     
  24. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,752

    George
    Member

    A guy who is more knowledgeable on B/RB engines than Hemis was saying that you can run a LA fuel pump w/o the HH adaptor by shortening the arm to clear the other side of the timing cover. Any one try this?
     
  26. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  27. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,071

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    BTW... here's an awesome example of what can be done with a stock timing cover!
    [​IMG]

    Thanks DE SOTO!
     
  28. Quickhemi
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 9

    Quickhemi
    Member
    from AUSTRALIA

    Here's a couple of shots of a timing cover that I am making up for my 276 Desoto Hemi.
    Using the lower portion of a small block timing cover
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Still have to fit the electric water pump.
     
  29. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,979

    73RR
    Member

    Hats off to this fng ^^^^^^^^:D


    .
     
  30. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,489

    4tford
    Member

    Nice work on the cover. Great ideal for a breather also!
     

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