Hello, I somewhat started this discussion in Milscruffy's 1932-Willys-Runner-in-Thirty-Days thread but thought maybe it should have it's own. Here's a link to that thread, which shows some front end pics. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384949&highlight=1932+willys I am looking into swapping out my mechanical brakes for a manual hydraulic setup. Based on the work that Milscruffy has done with his 32, I know that I can get an early ford drop axle to fit pretty close to factory, and I should be able to use a ford ranger rear as well. The problem comes in with the brakes up front and my stock wire wheels. The first issue is that the wires I have are 6 on 5.5" which would match only with toyota products as far as I can tell. While I can get new wires if necessary, it doesn't look like the flanges on 30's wires will clear a disc brake setup. I suppose I could order a narrower axle and use spacers/adapters, but I don't know how happy I am with that idea. I would be ok with using drums up front but the costs I have seen for repop drum kits are crazy. Of course there is always used but the odds of finding good backing plates plus decent drums in my neck of the woods is a long shot. There is a JY in my area that I am sure most of you know of which would be more than happy to sell me a complete '40 front axle at top dollar with shot drums and shot backing plates after I spend a whole day cutting it out of a car but I'd rather pass. I have seen posts about using f-100 brakes but they are not plentiful either. I basically want something economical and to be able to get a shoe kit or brake drum at any auto zone or napa, whatever, across the country if need be. Are there any other options? This is a pretty light car, even a 9 inch drum up front would probably work. Has anyone ever though of using a hydraulic drive shaft or trans brake as a pain free conversion method? The rest I think I am ok with, pedal assembly from Kugel, mustang clutch cable, fabbed drag link setup to the new axle, new ds, etc., all that seems like it would go ok. Ideas?
It also looks like you could have gotten the 6 on 5.5 bp on certain wagoneers, but I don't know if that helps me any. The only advantage I see to the spacers/adapters is that if I ever want to put on modern wheels, all I have to do is unbolt the s/a and bolt them on. I know in the past that spacers haven't been recommended though and I don't want it to look super rigged.
If it helps 6 x 5.5 was on all the FSJ's from 72-73 on to 1991. J-10, Cherokee, Wagoneer. Also the 6 x 5.5 is used on Chevy cars of the 40's and 50's, and Trucks up to now on 4x4 models. And like you said the Toyota and Nissan used the 6x5.5 pattern for quite a while. Jeff
Maybe I want to order the chevy axle then... For the rear I would need to find something around 58-59" and I think the toyota might be close to that.
Anyone know what years/apps I should be looking for with the chevys? The speedway axle is set up for 49-54 spindles. Drums/rebuild kits available?
You need to understand that when you use a modern rotor and hub, most times the "flange to flange" width increases over stock drums. Now you are adding very thick spacer/adapters.... the scrub radius will be as wrong as you can get. IMO Just a quick scan of what you are doing on the front: I would find a 40-48 5 on 5.5 drum to look at. See if the 6 on 5.5 can be drilled by a shop, and most importantly, to see if your OEM wire will sit flush and fully supported on the Ford drum. JMO, but discs and stock wires is going to look goofy. Those 19" or 18" wires are very "open" and you'd see too much of the discs. Another problem (with rotors) is that the stock wire probably needs a much larger flat surface diameter for the wheel to be supported. It's not just the bolt pattern that's important. What kind of car are you building? a highboy or full fender? If it's full, and does not need to be dropped too much, I'd be looking at swapping backing plates if possible, IF the drums are beefy enough. Get the front figured out first before buying a rear end. That way if you can fix the front, then any rear will likely need some sort of spacer that allows a bigger flat surface for those wires...and you'd then look for the correct width rear by figuring in the spacer/adapter thickness.
Here's a shot of Milscruffy's front end which shows the width of the stock drums, which are pretty thin. Even if I could get a more modern backing plate and drum to work with the willys spindle, it would push it out at least an inch or two per side, probably more. Right now I think the solution is the 49-54 chevy spindle, which will work with the speedway drop axle. From another post I read here, I am looking for the 51-54 drum setup and hopefully that came in a 6 on 5.5 bp as hotrodjeep suggested. With any luck the chevy drum will mate up to my wires, I know what you're saying about supporting the flange on the wheel as well. I'm willing to go the extra mile so that the wear parts are off the shelf items. I don't want to have the drums modified every time I need to replace them, etc. The car will keep it's fenders but I need the drop axle to match the stock one which was a drop right from the factory. If anyone can clue me in on what chevy apps I should be looking for from 51-54 that used the common 49-54 spindles and the 6x5.5 bp, that will help me along quite a bit. Truck? Other GMs? I have a wanted ad in the classifieds but no responses yet.
From another thread, it looks like I can get by with 49-54 spindles, 51-54 backing plates, and chevy pickup hubs and drums.
Hey Montclaire, I've been following Milscruffy's post also. It's been giving me a lot of ideas for my project car that I bought last August. The car I bought is a 1932 Willys Overland 6-90 sedan thats been in a barn 3 miles from my house for 30 years. My wife came home from this friends house one night saying that they had "an old Willys" that they decided to sell and asked me if I knew of anyone that may want it. We went right down to look at it and I fell in love with it. This is a car that was hot rodded a while ago. I've decided to completely redo it. The original axle and brakes were upgraded by cutting a Mustang drum brake backing plate section that mounts the brake cylinder, then it was welded to the original Willys backing plate. making the brakes hydraulic. If you'd like, I'll take the assembly apart and take photos of it and send them to you. I got a lot of extra parts when I bought this car, some of the parts are a set of wood spoke wheels with brake drums and a spare. The tires still have the stickers still on the tread. I just brough home the spare frame and drive train that was behind the barn this weekend. the funny thing is the motor turns over by hand easily.
Iwalton, I have a 1933 Willys-Overland 690A and am now looking at all the options of converting to hydraulic brakes. I also want to try and keep the original wheels. That would be great if you would take some pictures so we could see how your brakes were done. Thanks. derald
Hey Derald, I finally got some time to go out to the shop to take some pictures of the brakes that came on the Willys. Sorry it took so long. As you can see from the pictures, he had taken the original drum backing plate and cut it to accept the mounting piece off of an older mustang (I think). He then welded pieces (possibly cut from mustang shoes) onto the original shoes to accept the pistons. Then he added holes to the drum and original shoes for the hold downs. I probably would have done the work differently but, I really like the thought process that he used to adapt the original brakes to hydraulic. On this car, Im probably going to go with a 6 dropped axle set up along the same lines of what Scruffy did with his car so I wont be using this setup.
Thanks Iwalton, That gives me another option. Will have to check and see what the cost would be to have the shoes relined and also how much the handling would be improved with new shocks replacing the original ones. Called around today to see if any of the salvage yards had any mustang fronts. None available. Am trying to get by the least expensive way and still stay safe. Thanks again. derald
Does it have to be a mustang donor? Wouldn't it be possible to use just about any similar sized backing plate as a donor? Would it have to be fronts?
For the piece of backing plate that is used I don't think it would make that much difference. Is there a part number on the wheel cylinders? When I called around I was looking for the complete front axle to replace the original. Am trying to keep the cost down. I did cut off the spindles on the 41 plymouth 2 door I did have, and made an adapter and used the Ambassador bolt on spindles. Worked great with no problems. derald
I keep forgetting to add a picture of my 33 Willys. It is model 690-A. This was taken for insurance and I had the grill off at the time. Haven't found the additional pictures yet.
We have put in a 6 cyl out of a '64 Chevelle SS and a 200 4R transmission, but still have the original rear end. Gear ratio of 4.46 so it is rather low even with the overdrive. I took a 400 mile round trip in it and it was all over the place on the road. Wanted to keep the original wires on it but that will have to change for handling purposes I think.
I want to replace the original wires but keep the Look also. Has anyone had any experience with this company? the wheels look like they'd fill the bill. http://www.truespoke.net/BareHotRod.html
Iwalton, I know this is a couple of years old, but what did you end up doing with the front end for brakes? Thanks. derald
The Jalopy Journal
