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HELP! Track roadster stranded me again!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 32SEDAN, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    This issue is really pissing me off and I'm tired of getting stranded. My young kids are beginning to ridicule me and avoid going for rides in the hot rod. At this point, I cannot blame them!

    What I'm working with:

    325 Hemi KD500, Dual CAFBs w/progressive linkage, MOPAR Performance HEI, electric fuel pump, braided stainless fuel line under hood

    What happens:
    Starts with minimal cranking. When it warms up to @ 195 deg or higher, car dies as if I'm running out of gas (on a full tank). Fuel pressure dial (in the fuel block under the hood) goes from @7 psi when just started to <1 psi when up to running temp. If I shut it off before it dies on its own, it's very hard starting again...

    What I've done to address the problem:

    FUEL: New Holley Red fuel pump, replaced inline filters, new phenolic carb spacers (much uglier than the aluminum ones I replaced), drained fuel tank

    SPARK: New MSD Blaster 2 coil and ballast resistor; new plug wires

    AIR: 4" oval air filter - likely not the culprit

    I realize this problem is probably heat related. When I move back to the mainland, I intend to punch louvers in the hood to give the heat somewhere to go and of course, it will be much cooler in all ways.

    Looking for ideas to make this damn thing reliable... Should I go to a rubber hose under the hood? Is my fuel pressure gauge defective or is it normal for the psi to drop after running? I've been all over the hot start / vapor lock threads and no dice. Possibly an ignition issue?

    Help! and thanks
     
  2. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    I should add that after about 45 min or so it starts right up. I usually head home before I get stranded again which is a lame ending to any hot rod ride! :(
     
  3. You didn't mention fuel pump placement or if you are running a return line? Sounds like your pump is getting hot but I could be wrong. Or if your suction line to the pump is close to the exhaust it could be that you are trying to pump vapor instead of fuel.
     
  4. Destralo Roach
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 521

    Destralo Roach
    Member

    Gas cap is not vented, run it with it off and see what happens.

    ..................Roach.
     

  5. DualQuad55
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,377

    DualQuad55
    Member
    from Epsom, NH

    It sounds like you may be getting vapor lock. Is the fuel pump mounted close to the tank? That style pump is 'pusher' pump and should have good gravity feed to work properly. Usually a pusher pump doesn't suffer from vapor lock nearly as bad as a stock mechanical pump would.
    Is the pump running properly and not dying out when hot? Not real common for that, and usually wouldn't come back around too many times if so. A poor ground can cause this.
    Nothing in the ignition system will cause fuel pressure drop.
    Make sure your fuel lines are not too close to the exhaust, can you check temp under hood or along the lines? a cheap infared thermomiter may help there.
     
  6. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,999

    daddio211
    Member

    Gas cap is my first thought too.
     
  7. borderboy1971
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 743

    borderboy1971
    Member
    from Canada

    Sounds like vapour lock to me too. But don't forget the lines can't be too close to the heat either or it can vaporize in the lines before it gets to the carbs. I used to look after a fleet of f600's and had that probem on several of them. We would reroute the line away from the exhaust manifolds, and problems solved. (how much do them engineers get paid???)
     
  8. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Pump is located on the pass side frame rail and line follows frame rail, then up the pass side firewall and is not close to the exhaust. Not running a return line but am open to it.
     
  9. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Cap is vented - first thing I checked.
     
  10. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    From the sounds of it, I think your fuel pump is the culprit too. I have had bad Holley pumps out of the box, and others that ran for years with no problems.

    We need more info, and as the guys suggested, your pump may be in too hot of a place. Do you have a filter before the pump? You should have one there, but sometimes if you are using one with a paper element an electric pump can suck them closed. Try bypassing it for a short time to see what you get.

    I recently started using Carter electric pumps, when my last Holley crapped out and started putting out 15 psi :eek: and I like the Carter much better............quieter, and it only puts out about 6 psi to the carbs, which is good.

    You could be thinking that it is engine heat related and it might be just pump related. Also, make sure your pickup screen isn't plugged and that the line into the pump isn't collapsing.

    Don

    I just reread you post and see you put a new pump on it. Tell us more about the filters , what type, etc.
     
  11. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Pump mounted on frame rail as I stated above and tank is behind the seat. I can hear the pump running hot and cold (it has an annoying whine) It gets HOT under the hood.
     
  12. They say that a return line isn't required on a red pump or even the blue but it never hurts on that type of pump. Sometimes the fuel or the pump gets hot and in turn it is trying to pump vapor in place of liquid fuel.

    I could be way off base but it is something to think about. maybe when it lets you down stick your hand under there and see how hot the bottom of the pump is.
     
  13. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    I've got a filter before the pump and a fine bronze replaceable filter after the pump. Line before the pump is stainless so I do not think it is collapsing. Seems like if that was the problem it would not matter if it was hot or cold..
     
  14. borderboy1971
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 743

    borderboy1971
    Member
    from Canada

    2 more fuel problems I'll throw at you to consider. As was mentioned, is there a screen in the tank? I've seen the pumps slowly draw sludge etc. to the pump to the point they can't run. After sitting for a bit the sludge will fall off the screen and allow the pump to run for awhile. #2 good ground for the pump? (most pumps have rubber insulators to isolate vibration and noise, but the pump needs a GOOD ground wire).
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2011
  15. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Pump is grounded directly to the frame rail to a separate bolt away from the mount.

    I'll pull the pick up tomorrow and inspect the screen. Might as well, I need to rule everything out.

    Fuel line is stainless along the frame rail before and after the pump, then transitions to braided stainless up to the fuel block on the firewall. Should I replace the braided line with a rubber line to the fuel block? Braided line seems to collect heat extremely well...
     
  16. NateSedan
    Joined: Jan 12, 2008
    Posts: 59

    NateSedan
    Member
    from Oregon

    I had this happen. The sludge was actually chunks of rust. I pulled the tank and cleaned it out but it was not in the greatest shape. I replaced it with a new stainless tank from tanks inc. and the problem was gone for good.
    Good luck...sucks getting stranded. Been there, done that. At least it is Hawaii.....
     
  17. Sheep Dip
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,572

    Sheep Dip
    Member
    from Central Ca

    Full 12 volts to the HEI?
     
  18. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Next time it happens shoot some starting fluid into the carbs and see if it fires up on that. Then you will know the problem is that you are not getting fuel. All you have to do then is to find out why.

    195 isn't particularly hot, my daily runs between 206 and 212, and the dealer tells me it is supposed to do that. You say it is a track T, how about trying it with the hood off for a while, if it is removable?

    Don
     
  19. OoltewahSpeedShop
    Joined: Oct 18, 2007
    Posts: 3,103

    OoltewahSpeedShop
    Member

    You are getting vapor lock of some sort..... If the fuel is getting hot enough to boil anywhere from point A to B, there is a problem.

    Those are ABSOLUTE signs of vapor lock.

    Ignition is NOT the problem.
     
  20. there it is
     
  21. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Except I'm not sure it's boiling although signs point to it being the case. I like the starter fluid idea as a way to verify.

    BTW Kevin, I'm moving back to Huntsville, AL next year to your backyard! Know any good louver guys there? :)
     
  22. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Cap IS vented!
     
  23. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Thanks Don. Not a Track T - '28 Model A Track Roadster. The hood is critical to completing the track nose look on my rod! ;) However, if I get stranded again, I might pull that sucker off!

    I need some LOUVERS!

    [​IMG]
     
  24. racer67x
    Joined: Oct 30, 2007
    Posts: 261

    racer67x
    Member

    try to reroute your fuel lines..I've also seen it too many times where the lines got too hot and boiled the gas.
     
  25. 32SEDAN
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,295

    32SEDAN
    Member

    Tight fit. Poor pic, but look in the top right and you can see the braided SS fuel line go into the block. Then it's rubber out to each AFB.

    [​IMG]

    This will give you an idea on how the HEMI easily heats up the tight space under the hood. Louvers...

    [​IMG]

    This one is for posterity...

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Nice looking roadster. You are right, there is no place for hot air to exit, especially with a hemi in there. What I was suggesting was to temporarily pull the hood off and see if that makes any difference.

    Don
     
  27. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,142

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    +2 This is the first thing I would try since it looks like there isn't a way for heat to escape. Remember it is the hottest time of the year for most people. Is this a new issue or has it been going on since you completed the car?

    The only thing that makes me think its not a heat issue is that you stated it doesn't go over 195 degrees which isn't to hot for a lot setups.

    You could also run a fuel line from the fuel pump to the engine outside of the car with the hood open for test purposes. That would rule out the fuel getting to hot.
     
  28. anteek
    Joined: Feb 27, 2009
    Posts: 394

    anteek
    Member

    Beautiful car,but vent the hood! Drive it without the hood and see what happens.
     
  29. Rochie
    Joined: Nov 19, 2004
    Posts: 199

    Rochie
    Member

    Your statement that the fuel pressure drops from 7PSI to 1PSi is the operating phrase here. I have to go along with Don's hot rods on this one. The Carter pumps are quieter, only push 5/6 lbs, and run for damn near ever. Everytime I've run into a pump problem it's been a Holley. On the last one, the seal between the pump motor and the impeler let go spewing gas all over the place and it was 2 months old!!!
     
  30. Hot Rod Willys
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,697

    Hot Rod Willys
    Member
    from Ohio

    Key statement here is that after it sits (and cools) it fires back up and can drive home. With everything I have read I would also recommend removing the hood and sides and go for a drive. I bet if you took a temp gun with you you would be shocked how hot your carbs and fuel lines are in that tight area. I would bet its a fuel related problem under the hood due to heat.
     

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