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Technical HELP: oil fumes inside when running Flathead V8

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gr8rods, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. gr8rods
    Joined: Dec 7, 2006
    Posts: 29

    gr8rods
    Member

    Hi I always get a bad headache after been driving my Flathhead 49-53 engine.
    I have a feeling the oil fumes does not get ventilated right and goes into the coupe.
    I have tried to plug all the small holes on the fire wall but still no luck.
    Now I think there is a different problem
    The car has electric fuel pump and the rear fuel pump location is now a air Breather
    and I have another Breather on the oil full tube. I don't see any Road Down Draft tube
    in the front has the 49-53 stock engine have - is that what I am missing ?
    It runs an aftermarket intake that doesn't have such a Down Draft Tube outlet. Do I have to many Breather and that is where the oil fume comes from ?
    Do I need to find a PCV valve and plug the front oil fill tube?
    Not sure if I have a Breather on the oil pan....
    Anyone else experience this OIL FUME get high problem ?
    Or this is how it is to drive an old flathead engine ?
    any suggestions or recommendation appreciated
    Thx
    Gr8rods

    My Engine.JPG

    pcv-1 went flow image BW.jpg
     
  2. To keep out fumes out of the cabin, do as El Mirage racers do, as we have a little bit of a dust problem. At night in the dark, have someone go around the car with a flash light while you are inside, including the engine compartment. Look for rays of light coming in, there will be your 'leak' holes, seal as necessary.
    And it is an old car that is not suppose to be hermetically sealed, roll down the window and enjoy the fresh air, and maybe some wet,,,,,
     
  3. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 940

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    On the 8ba in my '39 p/u I'm running a PCV system. I installed a rubber grommet where the road draft tube that accepted a PCV valve from a 231 Buick (close as a cu. in. match to a 239 flathead I could find). Ran a hose to the vacuum fitting on the manifold and that solved any blow by fume issues. Another way of adapting the PCV valve is to find a freeze plug that fits where the road draft tube was and drill a hole in it to accept a grommet for whatever PCV valve you plan on using. I've got the part numbers of the grommet and PCV valve I used somewhere in the shop. Let me know if you want them and I'll see if I can find them. I may have posted some photos here or on the Barn. I'll check.
     
  4. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 9,805

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    You’ve plugged up your valve galley by installing an earlier aftermarket type intake.
    Install a Pcv system. Lots of information here on that subject. Here’s my 8ba with an earlier aftermarket intake and a pcv installed under the intake.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 940

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  6. flatjack
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 858

    flatjack
    Member

    Looks like you have an oil fill up front indicating the manifold is a 49 - 53. Did someone plug the road draft tube hole?
     
  7. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,537

    alchemy
    Member

    I can see the plug on your intake. Remove it and install a draft tube.
     
  8. gr8rods
    Joined: Dec 7, 2006
    Posts: 29

    gr8rods
    Member

    Thanks for all the pointers
    Will try the flash light trick tomorrow.

    Just went out to the garage and checked
    YES my Road Draft tube outlet is Plugged close so nothing comes out there ! It got to find another way out ie oil fill tube or the rear went tube where the fuel pump used to be.

    Also saw on another Wieand intake I had it doesn’t have any Road Draft outlet nor a Oil Fill tube !!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  9. gr8rods
    Joined: Dec 7, 2006
    Posts: 29

    gr8rods
    Member

    Its time to reengineer the setup

    I will use a freeze plug in the now plugged down draft hole and install a PCV there they goes to a 1” carb adapter under the carburetor and also do a PCV on the rear fuel pump Breather that goes to the second carburetor 1” carb adapter

    [​IMG]


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  10. gr8rods
    Joined: Dec 7, 2006
    Posts: 29

    gr8rods
    Member

    Also forgot to say :

    This is a Flathead Jack built engine. (He has now retired)

    And I forgot to look for if there was any Air inlet on the oil plan or where does the air inlet went come from if there is no inlet on the oil plan??
    From The oil tube breather or ?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 9,805

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

  12. gr8rods
    Joined: Dec 7, 2006
    Posts: 29

    gr8rods
    Member

    Thanks for the Picture - it show the in let air coming from the oil breather and the out let air going throw the Road Down Draft Tube ie where I plan to put a PCValve and which is now blocked in my current setup !!!@$#
    I saw there was 2 PVC kits for Flathead engines on Ebay
    but little price ie $30 and $45 .... I think I make my own .....

    PCV-ebay.jpg

    PCV-ebay2.jpg
     
  13. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 3,192

    jnaki

    Hello,
    As most old cars get modified or just adjusted to get it on the road. Small things like oil smells or exhaust fumes that just drift around the inside of a hot rod get overlooked. That is until your date gives you the hint that it is not nice to smell like a gasoline tank while sitting at a great restaurant for dinner. It does not matter if the restaurant is a top quality, once a month place, the odor of fumes just does not cut it. For us teenager, hot rod guys, it was overlooked with the enjoyment of being able to fire up our old cars and cruise to our heart’s delight. Freedom is what a hot rod brings to a teenager.


    But, after a few complaints, one was not as dense as our dates thought. The frantic search for the leaks was a game of epic proportions. A little hole here, a small wire fitting loosely in a grommet there, etc. There were tons of places, including the floorboard pedal areas. One place we tested, but did not give it much notice was the steering column. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/steering-column-seal.1129176/#post-12822210

    It did not matter how well we cleaned off the motor of leaks or drips, etc. Old motors just have that "stuff" that has been around for years and is baked into the paint. Most cars have that same smell or unusual odor. The headaches, if you get them, come from what you can't smell, carbon monoxide. That is deadly. Lucky for us hot rod guys, the smell of the exhaust automatically gives us a warning that the odorless carbon monoxide is in the area causing havoc.

    Jnaki

    For me, the 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery was my first car purchase. But, I did have a back up in a nice black, 1958 Impala for those fine dates and dinner outings. The Impala was used until I could get the sedan delivery fixed. The sedan delivery used to have a big time 348 motor in it and was converted to a stock Flathead, in order to lower the cost for me to buy it.

    Now that I think about it, there were some odd looks towards us at surf movies and assemblies at school, after we got out of our sedan delivery. At the time, we thought we were being highlighted as being cool surfer/athletes and not being stared at because we smelled like gasoline. Live and learn…

    The holes did get sealed and we did smell a lot nicer in the time we owned the 1940 sedan delivery. Plus, we did not pass out from the fumes wafting around the empty hollow area in the back, even during those "surfboards sticking inside of the rear door window" road trips. Towels and t shirts did the “sealing” trick quite well. No one passed out and we were all still alive to see another day.
    upload_2019-5-18_17-31-54.png
    We never ran the 1940 ford sedan delivery without the rear glass window out. The slope of the rear door swirls the fumes around and gets sucked into the open rear door window. When leaving the sedan delivery once at the beach, I put the glass and rubber seal back into place. After the surf session and all day at the beach, the process was reversed and the window was taken out to load in our long surfboards. Plus the t-shirts, towels and what not were added, to seal up the small cracks and openings.
     
  14. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,992

    2935ford
    Member

    For safety, take a CO2 monitor with you on a run. If the thing beeps at you.......you definitely have a problem that is detrimental to your health. My '35 slantback always had some smell in the cabin even after plugging the holes and installing a PVC system on the 8BA. I always ran with the door windows down. Took a CO2 monitor with me and the levels were safe so, I just carried on.
     
  15. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 3,192

    jnaki





    Hello,
    That CO monitor would have been great, but stopping the leaks and causes of the leaks in our cars was a better use of our time. Remember, this was 1960 and we did what we could, with no electronics or fancy devices. The saving grace then and now is that with any automotive fumes drifting around, there is the great possibility that odorless and colorless, Carbon Monoxide is lingering in the air and to get it fixed. As car guys, that is the key for safety. It is not the actual exhaust fumes or smoke, but what we can't see inside.

    Once we were on my wife's dad's power boat. Her mom and I were sitting in the rear deck area talking and started feeling woozy. The idling twin V8 motors gave off some fumes that crept over the transom and lingered in the general area where we were sitting. ( The boat was moving forward at a normal pace.) You would think that being outdoors in the open air would have kept the fumes away...But, no, they attacked with a vengeance and both of us got sick to the point of fainting. My wife helped us up and over to the wind flowing to the back and made us breathe in the fresh air. That did the trick and we were no longer stumbling around.

    Jnaki
    In 1960, with the early insertion of our long surfboards into the open rear door window of the sedan delivery, it became obvious that something was not right with the exhaust fumes wafting around. The emergency fix of towels and shirts solved the leakage and there was no more exhaust fumes in the big cave behind the seats.


    In our modern station wagons, the back door open device serves two purposes. One is to show the driver that fumes may come inside. The other is that being forgetful or light on slamming down the rear door securely. They all seal correctly and gives us something helpful to remember.

    EXTRA:
    We have several CO monitors in various places of the house and garage. That is some sense of security. CO2 is carbon dioxide.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019

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