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help needed smoking problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ponchopowered, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    So to give a little back ground, so every ones up to speed. my 55 pontiac daily driver ended up with a dead cylinder and a cylinder a 20 psi. so i did some digging and found a replacement 287 motor from a 55 pontiac wagon. i knew the history on this motor, knew it ran great 130 psi on all cylinders. so i go about the motor swap wam bam thank you mam 4 days later im driving my baby again. three weeks in to driving her i check the oil its a little low, she had some blow by. so i top it off. spilled a dab on the exhaust so let it idle in the drive way to burn it off before i left and headed out. i made it three blocks from my house and went hummm it shouldn't be burning that oil off any more. look out my window and its puffing smoke out my lake pipes. so i turn around get her home pull the plugs and #4 cylinder the plug is soaked with oil. (its smoking a light blueish color).


    so i was praying that a ring, may have gotten stuck. soak the cylinder with atf for 4 days, still smokes. poured some diesel in there let is soak for 5 days turned the motor over, and added some more and let it soak for 5 more days. started it today and still smokes.

    so i am unsure if i have a stuck ring, a burned ring, or a broken ring. the smoking gets worse when the motor gets warm. so what i am asking is if there is any thing else i can or should try to see if the problem will go away. and i can driver her again, or if there is some way i can narrow it down on what it may be, before i have to tear the motor down? sorry for the long post i just wanted to give some good back ground. Thanks every one
     
  2. malcolm1943
    Joined: Sep 28, 2011
    Posts: 239

    malcolm1943
    Member

    have you re-done a compression test to see if that cylinder has lost any? Do that and then check with vacuume guage to see if it is showing signs of a stuck valve, or poor overall vacuume. Just my thoughts and 2c.
     
  3. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    did not think of doing that i was just assuming that it was all in the rings. the weird part to me is the fact that it gets worse when i gets warm thats what throws me off.
     
  4. I think it is just work rings. When hot and the oil is thin, the oil gets by the rings. Could also be valve guides. Accelerate up to 65-70 mph and let off the gas. Does smoke get worse or is it worse when accelerating? Or is it kind of the same all the time? If it smokes more when letting off and decelerating, that usually means rings as the high vacuum pulls more oil into the cylinder vs accelerating.

    Amount of blow-by is also indicator of rings. Lot of blow-by means leaking past the rings. Hard to say how the engine should be since you put in the replacement and it may not have as good of shape as you were led to believe. Did you ever drive it and get it really up to operating temp?
     
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  5. Since it started after you put oil in it...is it possible you have the wrong dipstick and have overfilled the crankcase.....?
     
  6. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,414

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    If all else fails:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Tnomoldw
    Joined: Dec 5, 2012
    Posts: 1,563

    Tnomoldw
    Member

    :)My best guess is the valve seals are shot . I had a lot of experience with Pontiac V-8 ,was my first engine to rebuild and ran it in my 40 Hudson coupe for years,Pontiacs pump a outragous amount of oil into the heads under the valve covers.They have hollow rocker studs,hydralic lifters,hollow push rods. It dont return to the pan fast enough. When I ran a Pontiac in a track car, I filled the push rods with pipe cleaners. That's right ,I smoked a tobacco pipe at the time.
    You can replace the valve seals without removing the heads , You remove the valve springs whlie the piston is up. and apply air (100 - 120lbs ) to the cylinder . The air will hold the valves up . Do one at a time, You can make an air attachment from spark plug or may be your compression gage.It is a simple operation. I would do it before I would tear the engine apart, but after I did more tests, like put a 100 puonds of air on each cylinder use an oil can filled with ATF, squirt around each pair of valves to see if under air pressure the valve guides are leaking, going to subcribe ,Good luck.:cool::eek::D
     
  8. Commish
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 379

    Commish
    Member
    from NW Ok

    The fact that it has a lot of blow by leads me to believe that it is a used engine with unknown amount of wear. If that is right, and it had been setting for an extended period of time it probably had some stuck rings when you installed it. If so that will accelerate the wear in just a few days driving and will start to consume lots of oil. My guess is you need to pull it and tear it down.
     
  9. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    it blows a thicker cloud when you bring it up real high in rpm's then let off. it dosent have bad blow by just a little you can faintly see it at the road tube. did i drive my car with the replacement motor? yes i drove it almost non-stop for 3 weeks after i put the replacement motor in. and had no problems. until this started.



    it does not have lots of blow by but a small amount. it did sit on a engine stand for a years or so. but it turned over real smooth before i even bought it. i also drove the wagon that the motor came out of and it was just as stong then as it is now.


    this stuff actually work? any body used it with good results? how is it supposed to help?
     
  10. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    assuming the new engine had sat around for a while, give it some time and a few heat and cool cycles before you give in.
    [​IMG]

    My engine sat for over 20 years
    [​IMG]

    It smoked like a train when I installed it. I was sure I had wasted a lot of time on it. After a few trips for exercise it started to subside. It's a used engine just like your daily driver. I'm very happy with it. No embarrassing smoke now. This is the way we used to build hotrods
     
  11. garvinzoom
    Joined: Sep 21, 2007
    Posts: 1,169

    garvinzoom
    Member

    I never had any luck with that Rislone stuff....overhaul in a can...lol
     
  12. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    It won't fix worn rings but it can eliminate any gum that clogs up the rings.
    I used Marvel Mystery oil on this one and it worked.

    I use Rislone to free up some stuck lifters on a Pontiac once that sat for about a year. Like I said it wont fix worn parts it's only for degumming an old engine that has been sitting.
     
  13. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,414

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    There's also the infamous "Bon Ami Tuneup". Tried it once on a tired engine, didn't help. Was used more to seat new rings I think. But if you have nothing else to lose...

    Edit: You might also pop a valve cover and valve spring off and see what valve seals you have and what condition they are in. Perhaps they got hard sitting and cracked after some use.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  14. George/Maine
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 949

    George/Maine
    Member

    The only way is to pull the heads and find out whats the problem.
    I had a rebuilt engine maybe 2000 miles and started smokeing it was a 1959 Ford t bird 352.
    What i found when pulled the heads was the wrist pin clip has fell out and the pin was cutting into the cylinder.Could be exhaust valve/cracked head.
     
  15. GassersGarage
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 4,735

    GassersGarage
    Member

    Do a compression check on the one bad cylinder. Squirt oil into the cylinder and take a another compression reading. If the reading rises, you have worn rings. If the reading stays the same, you have worn seals. But on a used, old engine, who knows.
     
  16. supervert
    Joined: Mar 8, 2009
    Posts: 433

    supervert
    Member

    What about a bad intake gasket, could be sucking oil into the ports. I had that happen on a 460 engine that I did a cam in, It didn't seat the intake gasket and sucked oil up. It did just like you are saying, let off the gas and built vacuum and started to smoke. I drove it for wile like that, just put oil in it all the time. I sold it to a friend and he changed the gasket and it stopped. But it also could be the valve seals, I would think that they would do the same.
     
  17. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    yea, mines the other way around it ran great no smoke for 3 weeks then went bad, but im willing to try anything, its hard to live right now let alone drop 3 bills on parts to tear it appart.

    it is worth a try i will do that today and report back with the results.
     
  18. You drove the car with this engine for 3 weeks and it didn't smoke. Then, you added oil and it began to smoke.
    I'd be looking real hard at the possibiility you could have a mis-marked or wrong dipstick as has been suggested earlier in this thread. I'd drain a quart of oil from the engine and try it again....or if it's needing an oil change, drain all the oil and put 5 quarts in it. Check dipstick. If it shows a low level, great! You've found your problem.
    It's a helluva lot cheaper than doing engine work that may not be needed.
     
  19. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    i dont think but i could be wrong that, that cant happen with the pontiacs. i am not sure. i did put a new intake gaskets on it but i heated with out water tightened the intake then drove and it had no problems.
     
  20. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    i will double check it, i added oil when i heard it had a small lifter tick. i had been so focused trying to work carb problems out i had not check the oil.

    how ill over filling it make it burn off out that one cylinder? i thought over filling a motor would just cause turbulance and foamy oil.? im always leaning new things
     
  21. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,916

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Does it use a tranny with a vacuum modulator that would pick on that cylinder?
     
  22. Pro Shifted
    Joined: May 18, 2010
    Posts: 51

    Pro Shifted
    Member


    this is the way a compression test should be performed. throttle at WOT. ground the coil wire
     
  23. scrappybunch
    Joined: Nov 16, 2011
    Posts: 294

    scrappybunch
    Member
    from nj

    Does this have vacuum wipers? We had a 56 Caddy that smoked like crazy, long story short there is an auxiliary mechanical vacuum pump in the oil pan that was pumping the intake with oil.
     
  24. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    i dont know if it makes a difference on trying to solve the problem. i am waiting on my compression tester to be returned. so while i wait. i pull the plug out on the cylinder that had the oil soaked plug #4 started the motor with no plug in there and once it started and the motor started to get warm it started smoking a little and then more. what confuses me is that with the plug out somehow oil is still getting burned off some how. ??? could it be a cracked exhaust valve guide?
     
  25. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    no it has a 55 b&m hydro-stick
     
  26. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,414

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    It's only smoking out one pipe correct?
     
  27. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    its two into 1 back into 2. so it smokes out both
     
  28. ponchopowered
    Joined: May 27, 2010
    Posts: 438

    ponchopowered
    Member

    im reposting this peice because im wondering if this could be a answer to my problem






    :i dont know if it makes a difference on trying to solve the problem. i am waiting on my compression tester to be returned. so while i wait. i pull the plug out on the cylinder that had the oil soaked plug #4 started the motor with no plug in there and once it started and the motor started to get warm it started smoking a little and then more. what confuses me is that with the plug out somehow oil is still getting burned off some how. ??? could it be a cracked exhaust valve guide?
    __________________
     
  29. Commish
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 379

    Commish
    Member
    from NW Ok

    Did the noise you thought was a lifter go away, or have you still got it? If you still have it, could be a cracked piston. If it were mine, I would go ahead and pull the valve covers and see what the integrity of the valve guide seals looks like, if okay, I think you are probably going to have to go deeper to find the problem.
     
  30. Diavolo
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 809

    Diavolo
    Member

    I'm going to suggest using Kano labs Kreen. I've read a lot about it from people who have used it to free up gummed up engines and I am just about a born again believer in the stuff. Many say it's better than Marvel MO. Lots of long term evaluation on it.

    I would say use the stuff like Kreen or MMO first and give it time to work. I got a hold of an engine that was questionable, an old 351W, and dumped engine flush in it, pulled the pan to replace a leaky gasket and checked the bearings, filled it up with fresh oil and ran MMO for a few months, checking and changing oil as it got nasty. I have it apart now for a rebuild and it was clean as a whistle inside. The rings were still kinda stuck though.

    It wasn't smoking when I tore it down but it was when I got it.
     

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