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help me avoid the M II epidemic

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by praisethelowered, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member

    I am contemplating the front suspension on my 35 olds. . . From the factory it has good looking IFS with long arms that almost meet in the middle of the frame . . . it looks good and appears that it could drop almost to the frame with airbags in place of the coil springs. . but I need some dropped uprights to get it to go low enough.

    I think the suspension may be the same as the much more common '35 and '36 chevy master deluxe. Does anyone know a source for dropped uprights/spindles for 1935/36 chevy master d's?

    Fatman starts at '39 . .
     
  2. Slide
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 3,022

    Slide
    Member

    Ya might give Fatman a call... I would be surprised if he don't have dropped uprights available specifically for the Olds. He carries a bunch of oddball stuff... or at least makes it to order.
     
  3. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member


    Good idea. . . I just called and they said "nope". . . and didn't have any other ideas. . . so fatman is a dead end.
     
  4. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,250

    squirrel
    Member

    olds is completely different from Chevy back then...

    maybe you could build a traditional car, and keep it stock ride height.
     

  5. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member


    ha, ha, that's basically what I am doing. . except for the rocket motor, cutom tailights, mild chop, reshaped trunk, etc.. . . uh

    it's just that MII would look kind of out of place on this car. . . and unlike with a ford I can't just drop the axle

    the body looks the same as a 36 chevy master d. . that's why I guessed they were related but maybe thats just the fisher body family.
    . . I have yet to find a 36 chevy that I can crawl under to check out.
     
  6. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 10,213

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    It has fenders, right? What's wrong with MII? Hell, they ride nice, modern brakes, good handling....why not?
     
  7. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member

    I'm knocking MII's . . . I just have another idea . . .
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,250

    squirrel
    Member

    My point is that many hot rods were not lowered (or raised) in the old days....going fast mostly involved putting in a bigger, newer engine.

    So be traditional, don't go along with the modern crowd, keep the old suspension stock (but rebuilt so it works well).
     
  9. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member

    man oh man. . .

    It's my car
    It's a custom (with a hot rod motor)
    I want to park it on the ground (not traditional - I know, I know)
    I want to explore an option other than an MII (for reasons other than the traditional/non-traditional flame war)


    I know it's inconsistant to be o.k. with airbags, but not be o.k. with MII. . but that's just what I am trying to figure out. If anyone loves MII's than good for them. I may even end up doing that. Can we move on. . .

    does anybody have a source for dropped spindles, maybe even custom made?
     
  10. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 6,998

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    How involved would it be to Z the frame under it?

    Or channel the whole car?
     
  11. tomslik
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 2,162

    tomslik
    Member

    or put a chevy F.E. under it?
     
  12. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member

    At this point I am just drawing diagrams and figuring out which way to go. . .

    more radical approaches may need to happen but if I can pick up a few inches with dropped spindles i'll probably want to do that too to reduce the height of the Z or channel required. . . .
     
  13. Slide
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 3,022

    Slide
    Member

    OK. I'm suprised about Fatman not having them, but...

    Seems like someone in the world used to have a service where you'd send them your uprights, and they'd fab some lowered ones to fit, but I can't remember who.

    If you don't care about trad, but want to avoid MII, what about a subframe? I think some of the 80s model Monte Carlo/Cutlass/Regal/GrandPrix frames had a narrow enough track width they could work under your Olds... or even S10 pickup front clips (much narrower, but they tuck the front wheels real nice....) Any of these have aftermarket airbag setups readily available.

    Or there's Tuck's idea of Z-ing the frame and using the stock suspension. HIs was on a shoebox, but I'm sure the same concept could be applied to other cars that had IFS and fenders.
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,250

    squirrel
    Member

    No problem...I'm just trying to offer you some other ideas to solve your dilemna! sometimes thinking about the problem in a completely different way can make something difficult become easy.

    Anyways...here's one little clue...

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90753

    and another:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6342

    Not sure how all this applies to your Olds, which might have different bushings at the top and bottom of the upright.

    or....Do you know of any really good welding shops in town? who don't mind taking on a lot of liability? :)
     
  15. Curt Six
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 914

    Curt Six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Try calling Jim Genty at Jamco Suspension. I know they don't have anything listed on their website for your car, but I also know that Jim does custom work...and he is also a hell of a nice guy with a lot of "old school" knowledge, so if HE can't figure it out, he might be able to point you to someone who does. His number is 707-544-4950.
    Curt
     
  16. praisethelowered
    Joined: Aug 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,103

    praisethelowered
    Member



    . . .I have to say, that flipping the uprights thing is pretty damn interesting. . . thanks
     
  17. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 6,998

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    Just make sure that whatever changes you do don't affect ackerman. :) Unless you want it to be impossible to drive through a parking lot. :D
     
  18. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,803

    Andy
    Member

    Here is a really bad idea. How about early Chevy. Like Corvette untill 63. It all unbolts and worked pretty good in vetts??
     
  19. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,584

    krooser
    Member

    That Olds front end is really big, fat and clunky (kinda like me!)...normally I am NOT a big fan of front clips BUT I think this is the answer to your canumdrum (problem)...Fatman makes a front frame stub for your Olds...but it uses MII stuff...a Cutlass front clip is nice and narrow and would work well under your car...

    A MII on the stock frame is almost impossible to accomplish....
     
  20. speedaddict
    Joined: Sep 28, 2002
    Posts: 2,420

    speedaddict
    Member
    from Austin, Tx

    man o man...I've read 3 of your post today and they were out there in left field.

    He's building a custom....I have old Rod N Custom mags (the little ones) that have titles like HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? and so on...You're way off man... :rolleyes:
     
  21. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,250

    squirrel
    Member

    ain't it nice to see we don't all think alike?

    :)
     
  22. UnIOnViLLEHauNT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2004
    Posts: 4,824

    UnIOnViLLEHauNT
    Member

    Dont discount the Jag front ends...cheap and 1 piece, power rack and pinion etc...and I believe frame rails will sit approx 9" from the ground above rails...which is plenty low. You have a wide track car, so it might work.
     
  23. speedaddict
    Joined: Sep 28, 2002
    Posts: 2,420

    speedaddict
    Member
    from Austin, Tx

    back to your MII epidemic, If you're running fenders, I don't see a problem with the MII. You'll sit as low as you want with the air ride setup and the MII. Check out Keith's Chebby. You can't really tell he's got a MII unless you're head is in his engine compartment or you crawl underneath...I don't know a lot of people that would go out of their way to do that either.
     
  24. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,991

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    My VERY opinionated opinion!
    Who gives a shit? When you build a CUSTOM, the emphasis is on custom bodywork, longer, lower, wider. Smoother, sleeker, slicker, just plain BETTER LOOKING! Asthetics, not mechanics.
    How you get there doesn't matter much. As long as it's low, and goes, the running gear of the car is not that important. If MII gives you the ride you want, and the correct height, use it. If a GM sub does it, use it. Volare, Jag, Pacer, whatever! A custom shouldn't even be shown with the hood up, so no one will see it anyway.
    You guys have got to stop being so "ANTI" everything modern. Hot rodders use semi-modern engines, so why can't custom guys use modern suspensions....air bags are a pretty modern addition to "custom car" suspensions, and you love them, dontcha?
     
  25. LeadSledMerc
    Joined: Nov 29, 2003
    Posts: 4,106

    LeadSledMerc
    Member

    Well said chopolds!!!!

    Like someone that lived in "the day" once told me about running modern components for safety and comfort...

    "if we had this stuff back in the day, we would have used it!".

    I know personally, I can't wait to drive the shit out of the MII I put in my '37 Chebby.:D
    LSM


     
  26. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,585

    Dale Fairfax
    Member Emeritus

    I believe the Cevies from that era had either a straight axle with parallel semi elliptics or the DuBonnet style independent which was like a giant hydraulic shock mounted on the spindle. Chevy called it knee action.

    Now that we got thru the history lesson, how are your lower control arms constructed? Assuming there is a seat for the coil spring, is there any way to lower that seat? '49 Mercs have "built up" lower arms where the spring seat is riveted to the arms-aftermarket lowering kits consist of blocks which are inserted between the arm and the seat (after cutting out the rivets and disassembling of course) which lowers the bottom of the spring and thus the whole car. If the seat can't be separated from the arm, possibly some surgery/fabrication could result in a "deep pocket" in the arm which would result in the same thing. Lowering the spring seat is (in my view) the best way to lower any stock I.F.S. since it retains full travel (and ride) and you don't have to screw with heating/bending uprights, strange alignment problems, and the like. You'd have to disassemble the front end anyway just to do a good rebuild on it.




    quote=praisethelowered]I am contemplating the front suspension on my 35 olds. . . From the factory it has good looking IFS with long arms that almost meet in the middle of the frame . . . it looks good and appears that it could drop almost to the frame with airbags in place of the coil springs. . but I need some dropped uprights to get it to go low enough.

    I think the suspension may be the same as the much more common '35 and '36 chevy master deluxe. Does anyone know a source for dropped uprights/spindles for 1935/36 chevy master d's?

    Fatman starts at '39 . .[/quote]
     
  27. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    Not exactly what you asked for, but...

    somewhere there is a thread on hub to hub widths for donors. http://www.progressiveautomotive.com/sweet.htm

    Could you make new/modify control arms for ball joints and use s10, camaro spindles?
     
  28. DrJ
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,418

    DrJ
    Member

    Flipping uprights isn't just that simple becasue it reverses the 5º angle of the kingpin inclination where the spindle mounts, and that needs to be changed to work right or your camber will be off 10º.

    Possibly easier to just make a new upright from steel stock.

    I looked it up in my '35-'53 Motors repair manual and the '36-7 thru '53 adjust the same way , at the upright pivot point's ecentric pins, so they are similar design, but it says the '35 adjusts with washers at the frame...?

    If that's the case, consider Zing the lower A arm like the tech thread Killer did on a later Chevy.

    Or graft the outer end of some ball joint disc brake A arms onto the ends of the ones you have, and put ball joint spindles on it instead of the uprights and kingpins.
    Just make the one with the spring pushing on it is strong!
     

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