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Technical Help identifying a banjo rear end (French, UK, German, or?)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by chrisp, May 7, 2019.

  1. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    I just got this yesterday and I'm completely lost, what the heck is this?
    [​IMG]
    I have never seen a center section with so much offset except on the front diff of a 4X4
    [​IMG]
    I'm assuming the shocks mount on those small brackets on the tubes
    [​IMG]
    Square pad with 4 bolts like on a Model Y but as far as I know they didn't have a banjo and were centered.
    [​IMG]
    Mechanical brakes with round shield.
    [​IMG]
    The center section on my mystery banjo has a diameter of 10" and a width of 3-13/16" just like the 35/48 banjo. The input shaft has 6 spline and 1" diameter. The pinion has 5 tooth and the ring 41, I checked the ratio, it's about 6.5:1 I thought it was something for a tractor but I've seen that there is a 6.17:1 reproduction ring, so pretty close if not the same. I measured roughly a ring diameter of 8.5" close to the 8.63" it should be, so I assume it's the same. The width from backing plate to backing plate is 48-1/2" and the distance between the spring eyes is 44".
    The axle tubes are very skinny compared to my '46 banjo.
    Since I'm in France I point out that the bolts are UNF with 9/16 heads, not those weird bolts we had on some products with metric heads and imperial threads.
    I just don't know what it came off of since it's absolutely not a US Ford car unit : Mathis, Matford, Chenard & Walker, Ford SAF, Ford UK, Fold Köln, or some kind of industrial thingy? Or did Ford supply other manufacturers with their differential?
    Those casting numbers didn't bring anything on the Net.
     
  2. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,666

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's from a British delivery truck of some sort, something with a real small engine! All I know came from Hot Rod Magazine probably around 1960.
    As I recall, they discovered these things and were interested because they realized a dragster rear end could be built with no machine work or welding by just using two sets of the short end parts. The posted numbers and some application info...nothing used here, but the parts could be ordered.
    The information was I think in the technical question-answer letters section in the back of the magazine.
    That pinion gear looks like a milling bit!
     
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  3. Stueeee
    Joined: Oct 21, 2015
    Posts: 175

    Stueeee
    Member
    from Kent, UK

    mgtstumpy likes this.
  4. Stueeee beat me to it. I had a N.O.S. grille from one of these. Sold it to a guy in the U.S. The twin crankhole is interesting.
    Fordson E83W chassis..jpg Fordson E83W chassis.jpg Fordson E83W1.jpg Fordson grille.JPG
     
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  5. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    Wow thanks guys that was fast.
    Now could this be used in a build other than the offset that could be problematic. I'm collecting parts for a special : jag 2.4 L6 engine (originally had a final gear ratio of 4.27:1), Morgan 5 speed Lt77 gear box (1st = 3.321, 2nd = 2.087, 3rd = 1.396, 4th = 1.00, 5th = 0.792) and tires in the range of 28.8/29.8 diameter. Knowing that a 4.4 ring is available for this diff or could a regular banjo gear set be bolted on which would give more options.
     
  6. Stueeee
    Joined: Oct 21, 2015
    Posts: 175

    Stueeee
    Member
    from Kent, UK

    Don't know whether a US banjo gear set would fit, but the front axle on the E83W is a much heavier unit than the one used on the Ford E93A Popular/Anglia/Prefect cars. US Ford kingpins fit straight into the E83W front axle; so there's a fair chance that Ford used the US based rear as well -certainly the rear in your photo looks a lot more substantial than the E93A item.
     
  7. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    Thanks for the info but for the front end l'll be using a Citroën I beam. I guess I'm gonna have to teardown my '46 banjo and see if anything can interchange.
     
  8. rgdavid
    Joined: Feb 3, 2014
    Posts: 326

    rgdavid
    Member

    Chrisp, i would be interested to see a photo of your citroen i beam axle, i think i found one.
     
  9. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,666

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think these are essentially full size Ford stuff with the funny brakes and the smallest engine that they could still find in the engine compartment. Not that different from a Ford Model 62, a lttle fish& chips flavored but mostly recognizable and open to similar mods.
     
  10. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    Today I grabbed a pair of backing plate from my parts pile, they're front ones.
    They bolt on perfectly, there is just a small interference of probably less than 0.5mm with one adjuster, using self energized Bendix would solve that, or shaving a little from the bolt head.
    [​IMG]
    Now I need to get or fab a hub puller to tear down my other banjo and check the gears.
     
  11. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,814

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    ""The pinion has 5 tooth and the ring 41""..That comes out to 8.2:1..Probably a 40 mph tops vehicle!!
     
  12. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 3,129

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    Geared low so that lawnmower engine could pull it!
     
  13. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 592

    SR100
    Member

    When the E83W was announced, the speed limit for light commercial vehicles in the UK was 30mph.
     
  14. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    Sounds good with all the speed traps we have in France...
     
  15. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    So I am fighting my 48 banjo, it is seized and the first drum won't come off...
    [​IMG]
    It's already 3 days I'm trying, I leave it with as much pressure on it as possible and tighten it every day but the drum didn't move a bit and I don't want to damage the axle. I even banged on the extractor to no avail...
    What can I do? I'm starting to think about cutting the drum, what do you think?
     
  16. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,496

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Have you tried to heat the hub with a torch, while you had puller on it , that would expand it enough to break it loose.
    On some of the ones I had to really hit the puller with a 8 pound sledge hammer to jar it loose.
     
  17. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 759

    chrisp
    Member

    I did hit it with a sledge hammer, maybe not hard enough. The puller is not mine so I don't want to hammer like there is no tomorrow and I'm hesitant to heat with the puller on. The puller is worth more than both drums.
    When I say it's seized, even with the pry bar the drums won't rotate, they are paper thin on the lower lip side. They're probably toast, hopefully not the complete rear end.
     
  18. mrquickwhip
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 451

    mrquickwhip
    Member

    Try pouring boiling water on the drums while hitting the drum with a hammer.....be careful not to pour boiling water on your hand
     

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