Can anyone identify what engine this is, whether its an A motor or a B motor. The engine number is TF 5315912.
You've shown the wrong side for identification purposes but it is a 'B' engine. The only thing that concerns me with that engine is that it may be a baby 14.9 'BF' engine.
Thems is a B--unless it's a BF. Wide valve cover, diamond shaped pad for fuel pump. Now measure the bore--B started life at 3 7/8", BF considerably less. (Edit) I think it's going to be a B, from the look of how the oil tube sits--I think there'd be more room behind it if a BF.
Hey, English people! I understand that AF heads fit A's for more compression, but BF's can't be used on B's. What's the dif?? Anybody over there have a spare BF cam or any other England only stuff needing a home? I just picked up a set of English early '30's parts books...lots of interesting stuff made over there! How late were B's in production in England for trucks??
Haven't picked the motor up yet. If it is a BF motor is it the bore thats just the difference, if so can you bore it out to the same as the B motor.
I've got an AF head. Combustion chambers are the same design but half the size! One day I'll put it against a 24hp to show the differences. Can't see why you wouldn't be able able to use a 'BF' on a 'B' or an 'A' engine. I think they were still fitting the fours as late as '38 in the commercials. Totally different bore sizes. I think you can see it from the outside in that there is a gap between each bore. I believe Phil (MonkeyBiker) had a 'BF' engine at one point so he should know. If you go by that logic then you have a 24hp 'B'.
Learned someting new today! Wonder if anyone is running one of the smaller A-B engines in a vintage class at Bonneville?
English car tax was based on "taxable horsepower"...a formula that basically multiplied number of cylinders times bore times lord knows what; the actual formula can be found online. Anyhow, it gave English cars a hard push towards few cylinders, small bores, and (untaxed) long strokes, because the formula controlled the size of a fairly stiff tax. AF and BF Fords had very small bores, hot cams (I wanna try one, or at least measure one!), small chamber heads, and different carbs, along with 4.55 rears I think. They got power up close to full size B numbers in late production, I think, by spinning the engines harder... Made in GB, exported at least to France and Germany.
Taxable HP, stolen from the Singer club: Why is it Called a Singer Nine If you have been involved in the restoration of British cars, you have more than likely been exposed to the term " taxable horsepower rating" . This has often been a source of confusion and amusement in the minds of North Americans, who are accustomed to large horsepower numbers and who haven’t had a tradition of petrol shortages and intrusive government policy towards their automobiles. If you have looked at the spec sheet for your Singer Nine (pre or post war), you have likely noticed that although your car is identified as a "9" horsepower, it actually generates considerably more power (31 b.h.p. in the case of the Sports Nines of the 30’s) and perhaps sufficient horsepower to enable you to cruise the local freeway. So what is this lower horsepower rating anyway? In 1921, the British government established the Road Act, which placed a tax on motors of one pound per RAC horsepower rating. In true bureaucratic form, however, the government wasn’t able to accept the manufacturers’ ratings and hence, devised their own standardized formula. And a formula it was, not being based on any practical bench test, but relying on applied theory only. The formula that was devised was D2 N/2.5, where D represented the diameter of the cylinder in inches and N represented the number of cylinders. For example, let’s look at the Singer "9". It has a four cylinder engine with 60mm pistons (2.3622 inches). The calculation to obtain the RAC Taxable horsepower rating would be as follows: (2.3622)24 = 8.93 2.5 The figure 8.93 of course is rounded off to 9 to arrive at the taxable horsepower rating. However, if you look carefully at the calculation ( and recognize that it is the combined activity of the bore and stroke that develops horsepower), you will notice that the stroke does not enter into the calculation at all. Hence a very narrow bore, of 60mm for example, could be complemented with a long stroke that would increase horsepower well beyond that which is indicated by the government’s formula. This formula fortunately worked in favour of the public, as well as the auto manufacturers of the day, as 1 pound for each horse of a low taxable rating was considerably less than the same pound multiplied by the much higher actual b.h.p.rating. Copyright 1998. NASOC. All rights reserved Note it has NO relationship to actual HP. A Ford 221 was rated as a "30".
"TF 5315912"...just noticed serial number. I've never found any information on how British Ford numbers worked, but that number seems to be in series with American numbers. B numbers began at 5,000,000 as an arbitrary point continuing from the Model A series. I think that's a vey late number, probably long after USA production stopped except for diamond B's. I assume the T means a truck that was no longer a BB chassis, perhaps some kind of Fordson cabover, and the F is for foreign--a designation that just meant right hand drive on a chassis number like this, but meant small bore engine when attached to engine parts. Dunno which it would actually mean in terms of the vehicle originally housing this motor. Is the number on the pad at side of engine (USA Model A practice) or on the bellhousing (USA Model B practice)??
Interesting...I don't know if I am seeing an artifact of the digital picture or the real marks, but that initial "T" sure looks like it is actually two letters, the second a "B"! That would make sense, too...wish I could see the actual stamping. Letters are very odd and interesting--looks like Ford England had its own unique script to prevent forgery. Seems almost runic!
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