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HELP! Can't identify brake drum for my AV8 build.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Ricky Rocket, Mar 22, 2015.

  1. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Hello, I'm trying to put together a hydraulic front end for my Model A. The guy I got it off of said it was from a 1951 Ford. I went and bought all the Timken bearings for the hubs to convert it to 46 spindles, and the backing plates seem to be the right ones. The drums are 11" and use the bendix style actuation. Please take a look at all the pictures, and see if you can help me identify what drums I need to order. The ones I have now are pretty worn and I'd like to get a new set. Here are some of the dimensions from the drum itself: hub hole in center is about 2.87", the shoe width is about 2" and the drum area where the shoe would ride is about 2.3" deep, the height of the drum is about 3.52". Bolt pattern is 5 x 5-1/2". According to the part numbers, the backing plates are from either an F100 or F1 Ford pick up. The markings on the drums are KH 34 F if that helps. When I did the mock up, all the bearings fit in the hub in the shoes in drums seem to fit the backing plates perfect. When I went to Napa and AutoZone to try and get a new set of drums, I was told that they weren't from the 51 Ford or any other Ford that they could find. Thanks in advance for any help, Rick. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427066952.414369.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427066967.112258.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427066984.867273.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427066997.887137.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427067196.727692.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427067219.463211.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427067232.461018.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  2. Master of None
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 2,279

    Master of None
    Member

    They kind of look like a set of Frord Econoline van drums.
     
  3. i believe the brakes you have may be from a `48-`52 Ford F-1 pickup , but that width of the brake shoe and the depth of the brake drum has me puzzled
     
  4. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    At first I thought the setup was pieced together, but everything seems to mock up fine. Unfortunately it's been awhile since I got these and the seller passed away. I can get more measurements and pictures if anybody needs further info. I guess I'll need to know what brake shoes and hardware to use.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015

  5. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    How about the Hub? Does that look like an F-1? I thought the F-100 used 2" shoes and had the bendix adjuster on it.
     
  6. I would suggest taking the brake shoes to your local traditional parts store, (with an experienced parts person) and have them identify the brake shoes with their F.M.S.I. catalog, in turn identifying what the drums are off of.
     
  7. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Tried that at NAPA, not so much luck. All the counter help around me are young and the guy told me it looks like a rear drum. When I showed him how it fit the hub he explained "no kidding!" Can anybody measure up an F-1 hub and see if it matches mine?
     
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,408

    alchemy
    Member

    Take this with a grain of salt: I think the F-1 and F-100 backing plates interchange, but the drums and hubs are different. I think the F-1 drums have more dish, with the F-100 being flatter. Yours look dish-y, so I'd guess they are F-1 drums/hubs.

    Somebody on the HAMB found a low-cost alternative drum for either the F-1 or F-100 front brakes recently. Probably some time in the past year. Anybody know where that thread is?
     
  9. 56shoebox
    Joined: Sep 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,106

    56shoebox

    Sorry to interupt here and I don't want to steal this important thread, but what is the difference in an F1 versus an F100? I assume they are both p/u trucks. Is one a one ton and the other a half ton, or something? I am not familiar with the two models. Thank you.
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    F1 late 40's up through 1952 With the first F100 being 1953 both are 1/2 tons with five lug wheels.
     
  11. 56shoebox
    Joined: Sep 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,106

    56shoebox

    Thank you very much. I hated to ask at the risk of getting ripped and publicly humiliated by the experts here and being drummed out of the HAMB for not being all knowing.
     
  12. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    After all the input from everybody, I'm leaning towards these being from an F-1. As a lot of people have done the hydraulic conversion on their early Fords, I was hoping somebody would have an F-1 or F-100 hub/drum lying around to compare with. If anybody has a hub or drum I'd appreciate getting some measurements to compare with my setup.
     
  13. nobux
    Joined: Oct 19, 2002
    Posts: 646

    nobux
    Member

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is a F-1 drum.

    These are F-1(left) and F-100 hubs(right).

    [​IMG]

    More. F-1 on top.

    [​IMG]

    I can do some measuring later, I'm heading out to clear some more snow right now.
     
  14. deuceman32
    Joined: Oct 23, 2007
    Posts: 459

    deuceman32
    Member

    [​IMG]

    This is a picture of F100 vs F1 drums that I found on an old post here on the Hamb.
     
    RICH B likes this.
  15. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Thanks! It looks more and more like F-1 to me. I was hoping it was F-100 as I will have run 1-1/4" spacers to fit my 35 wire wheels and the F-1 looks like it's going to already be a "wider" wheelbase as the F-100 hubs place the drums closer to the backing plates.
     
  16. nobux
    Joined: Oct 19, 2002
    Posts: 646

    nobux
    Member

  17. nobux
    Joined: Oct 19, 2002
    Posts: 646

    nobux
    Member

  18. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Man, you guys are awesome! Thanks for the measurements, pictures and input; and for the speed at which all of you have contributed information. I hope to "confirm" whatever the heck I have. Also, I will definitely look into that NAPA drum option....if it is an F-1 setup the drums I've seen online are freakin' expensive!
     
  19. Your stuff looks like F-1 in the pictures. I've been buying 8951 drums from AutoZone, at under $50 each they are half the price of the reproduction F-1 drums from the antique parts dealers. The quality seems about equal to any of the other off-shore drums we are blessed with now days. A good application to use when checking with your favorite supplier is '80 Bronco rear.
    F-100 hubs will give you a slightly narrower width and will work with the same backing plates. They also use the same bearings and seals as the F-1. The F-100 drums are readily available in the replacement parts market from about any auto parts store.
     
  20. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Rich, any idea of what year F-100 hubs to look for if I was to make the switch? I may stick with the hubs I have but like to keep my options open.
     
  21. Sorry, should have included that info; they are '53-'56 F-100 hubs.
     
  22. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Is there any quality difference to speak of between the AutoZone and NAPA drums?
     
  23. NAPA, AutoZone, O'reilly, etc all have "store" brand drums in the same price range; don't know for sure; but wouldn't surprise if most of them came from the same factory. You can find more expensive "name' brand drums too; but I couldn't say if they are better or actually any different. Maybe somebody with more knowledge of this market can chime in here.
     
  24. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,352

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    I'm not sure on the cheapest line that all three carry. never used O'reilly, but I generally prefer NAPA over Autozone. around here they hire better parts people. lots of Hambers use napa echlin brand parts and you will find them posted up for most things that you can get at a parts store. like every single part you need to rebuild a 50 year old mallory distributor can be bought at any Napa....
     
  25. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    I just ordered a set from NAPA; the counter guy was one of the first in a long time who actually invited me to come down and "compare" parts with his inventory. He said that we could eventually figure out what would fit; this is the first guy to not rely on a computer screen to match parts. :)
     
  26. telecustom
    Joined: Feb 17, 2009
    Posts: 336

    telecustom
    Member
    from Langey, BC

    Now that is neat having the napa guy let you in the back. I would spend all day if I could. I've found a rebuilt F1 master cylinder at napa. Keep looking.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  27. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,352

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    pretty normal for me.... they have no idea what you want once you say "hot rod" I've walked into autozone asking for parts for a first year big block corvette... when all I needed was a coil... they don't even have a clue, not even fun to mess with those guys lol
     
  28. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    OK, update here. I picked up the NAPA 440-1455 drums and ordered all the brake shoes, wheel cylinders, etc. Got home and bolted my F-1 backing plates to my '46 ford squareback spindles. Put my Timken bearings in my F-1 hubs (after grinding the inner bearing to match the taper on the spindle). Put the drums on the hubs and they won't spin. It seems the "inner" lip of the drum hits the backing plate. The drum is sitting about a 1/16" above the face of the hub, and the hub can rotate beneath it ok, but the drum seems to be bottoming out on the backing plate. Can't figure out what's going on. You don't need to put a spacer between the spindle and inner bearing do you? That would move the inner seal surface too far out to create an effective seal. Any suggestions? ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427567161.892695.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1427567186.409801.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  29. After reading your post; I assembled a backing plate and hub on a spindle and did a little measuring. With a straight edge on the face of the hub, it measured 3.670" to the bottom bottom of the backing plate just inside the flange.

    I set an 8951 drum on the hub and it was free spinning. I measured the depth of the 8951 drum and it measured 3.550"; which should make the clearance .120".

    Just for comparison, and to get an idea of "stock" clearance I measured an NOS Wagner F-1 drum; it measured 3.426", which would have a clearance of .244".

    Made the measurements with a straight edge and dial caliper, so they are not real precision; but close enough for stuff like this.

    I have used several sets of the 8951 drums from AutoZone and know of others that have also used them with no problem.

    I would do a little measuring and see where the difference is; but I would guess the drums from NAPA are slightly deeper than the AutoZone drums. If you didn't want to get the other drums, you could always face off the back edges of the drum on a brake lathe to gain the needed clearance. Had to do that when adapting F-1 drums to the '58 Ranchero 9 inch in my coupe.
    drum edge.jpg
     
  30. Ricky Rocket
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 63

    Ricky Rocket
    Member

    Thanks Rich. Is that picture the F-1 drum or the 8951?
     

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