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Technical Head problems.....

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 19blockhead72, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    Ok, so I was heading out the door to a show today when a pop and clack clack clack came from my sbc. So it turns out I broke off a rocker stud..........damn! Anyway here's my question, my heads are 62 fuelie heads that haven't ever had anything done to them as far as I know. Would it make more "cents" to move on to a new set of performance heads or have the machine work done to the old double humps? As far a work to the old heads I would have too do studs, guides, seats and valves. Whatcha guys think?
     
  2. Grahamsc
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 466

    Grahamsc
    Member
    from Colorado

    There are many heads out ther that will flow better than your double humps, it just depends on what direction you want to go and how much$ you want to part with.
     
  3. I personally stayed and rebuilt my camel humps at a cost of $500. New springs, valves, retainers, keepers, guides and seats. Basically I had a bare head and got it built.
    I know there are better options as far as performance but I like the look of my 327 with humps.


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  4. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    I don't want to spend a lot and was happy with the performance of the heads but of course who wouldn't want more power. The rest of the engine is kind of tired so it makes more sense to take the low cost rout. Eventually the engine will get refreshed but not till next year.
     

  5. 33sporttruck
    Joined: Jun 5, 2012
    Posts: 532

    33sporttruck
    Member

    With your dirt track background you already know that those heads were a prized possession for the Roundy-Round Guys. I assume your SBC is a 327 and as far as Chevy goes it is Very Traditional. I would at least get a few quotes on rebuilding the Fuelies.................... Jeff
     
  6. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    I think i may take your advise and check into rebuilding them. I do like the idea of running those old heads over something new.

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  7. hendelec
    Joined: Aug 23, 2008
    Posts: 99

    hendelec
    Member

    If you are re-building the engine next year, just replace the broken stud. The stud is the press in style and can be purchased individuly at NAPA or online. When the heads are off for the rebuild have the machine shop "pin" the studs like they did back in the day!
     
  8. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,866

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    You could save some shop labor by pulling the old studs yourself by stacking up the old rocker balls and taking an impact to them.Them replace with new ARP screw in studs.
     
  9. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 3,218

    Speed Gems
    Member

    I would do like hendelec says and when the heads are off for the rebuild have the machine shop machine the heads for screw in studs because if your new cam has high enough lift press in studs will eventually just pull out again anyway.
     
  10. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 775

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    Like the others have said just replace the broken stud and enjoy your summer. Sounds like the motor is coming out soon anyway. Spend your rebuild money all at once because often when you dig into a rebuild plans change as I have just experienced with my little 283.
     
  11. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    I like the idea of just replacing the stud but it broke off almost flush and I'm not sure about removing it. Any ideas on this?

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  12. landseaandair
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,436

    landseaandair
    Member
    from phoenix

    Might not be hard to drill. Stuff rags or form aluminum foil around the area before drilling. A drilling jig of sorts could be whipped up to bridge a few studs and could also help to start the tap straight.
     
  13. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,738

    Andy
    Member

    A friend just did that, He is at the LARS now. Maybe I can get him to post when he gets back. The stud was flush and he replaced it on the engine.
     
  14. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,737

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    You could drill it and tap it for say a 1/4 inch stud then use the rocker ball and nut to pull it out.
    Make sure you drain the coolant because those studs go into a water jacket.
     
  15. landseaandair
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,436

    landseaandair
    Member
    from phoenix

    I thought of that but if a hardened bold broke off in the hole it would be a lot harder to fix.
     
  16. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    I may just pull the heads and have them done. When i do pull the engine all i have is the bottom end to do. It's not a racer so no reason for it to be all fresh at the same time.

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  17. powrshftr
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 4,550

    powrshftr
    Member

    I would really be tempted to keep those traditional,old school camel hump heads on there.They suit an old motor so well.
    Maybe treat them to some porting and undercut stainless valves to help them work a little harder?
    Everybody seems to forget how good these heads worked back in the day before all the aftermarket stuff was available....
    Just because better stuff is available now,doesn't mean that you can erase history.:)

    Scott
     
  18. jamesgr81
    Joined: Feb 3, 2008
    Posts: 265

    jamesgr81
    Member

    You can buy new heads from Summit complete for Just over 300 bucks each. The money you will have in rebuilding the old double hump heads, surfacing, valve guides, valve job, maybe some new valves, and valve seats will cost you more than they are worth. Or you can go to Darts S/R stuff. A little more dough.

    Just drill out the stud slowly with ever increasing size drill, and then tap the hole to use a screw in stud. Then use new heads when you do the engine.

    Those old double hump heads were the cats arse in the day. Now they are a major restriction. The new vortec heads or any aftermarket head is vastly superior. Porting the old double humps is a waste of time when those Summit heads will outflow them out of the box.
     
  19. jbrittonjr
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 105

    jbrittonjr
    Member

    The GM Vortec heads are supposed to work well, though you'd need to change the intake manifold.
     
  20. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    I have used the Vortec heads before and for the money they are great! The only problem there is i just bought my intake a couple months ago.


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  21. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    Well I pulled my heads today and I discovered that they are the 461 casting number and turns out they have the 2.02 intake valves, is that rare? Rare or not it's pretty cool. Going to run them to the machine shop tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  22. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,737

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    You can get a lot of miles bench racing with the 2.02
     
  23. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

     
  24. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    Well things just went from bad to worse! Just discovered my block is cracked. If anybody needs me I'll be hanging in my garage. #%¥€+}#^=_|~!!!!!!!!!
     
  25. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    As far as drilling the broken stud goes, WHY? Take a drift, and a good sized, hammer and drive it through into the water jacket. That is what your machinist would do, how the service techs at a dealership would do it, and it's how it's recommended be done in the service manuals. Just don't get stupid with how hard you're hammering away at, use some care. And, since you have the heads off now, you can shake the broken stud out. On an engine, they were just left to rust away with time.They do make screw in studs that do not have a "nut-like shoulder". Tap the holes, double nut the stud, some locking compound/sealant, and twist them in. The 265 and 283 heads I have have both been done in this fashion, you don't need the more expensive shouldered screw in studs. This is not an all out, squeeze every bit out power out of it engine, so your 461's are fine. The COST of rebuilding them is the real concern. The "good" thing about your heads, is they have a fairly small chamber size of 64 CC's. Newer and aftermarket heads will most likely have hardened exhaust seats that the 461's don't have, and larger chambers that will drop your CR. Look on the underside of your 461's, and see if you can find an "X" alongside one of the intake runners. If you happen to have 461X heads, they are RARE, and have a slightly smaller chamber, and raised intake runner. "Regular" 461's are't rare, unless you look at the fact they are't as plentiful as they once were. There's not a big difference between 1.94 and 2.02 valve sizes, and really is't going to change anything on the street. There used to be a sticky about these heads in the tech forum. They are, as the rules of the forum/HAMB goes, "traditional". Oh, I have THREE pairs of these heads, one pair are 461X heads, two are currently on running engines. Butch/56sedandelivery
     
  26. 19blockhead72
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Posts: 204

    19blockhead72
    Member

    Great info /\. Thanks

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