Has anyone used a "double C-channel" deuce frame?....

...made several years ago by Dearborn Deuce/Hotrods & Horsepower?
They mated two c-channels instead of conventional boxing plates (see picture).
How was the quality? Good, bad, otherwise?
Advice?
A friend has a new one for sale at a great price.

Thanks, guys!

 

I've never used one, but from an engineering standpoint I don't see how that can be bad. I'd use it.

 

I've never used one, but I did check them out at the Nationals. The quality was good,although overbuilt and heavy. The corner radii are actually larger than original rails(noticeably) for whatever it's worth.

I'd use it if the price is that right.

 

Good chassis, great price, what are you waiting for? Super strong as used in large truck frames.

 

My view point there is an issue with frame construction of this type and I approached the designer at the Street Rod Nationals a number of years ago about the design..

The problem develops not so much from a construction stand point but a safety stand point. If you look at a 32 frame it is essentially what is called a straight rail frame, when boxed similar to a piece of rectangular tubing. Now what happens is this becomes rigid under compression meaning that if you have an accident involving a front end style collision the frame will not give. The weakest link becomes the occupants as they fly forward on impact and receive additional injury because there is no crush zone to absorb the impact. Look how all newer cars are designed with a z style frontal framework.The original frame was just a "C" channel and distorts upon impact.

Now I'm sure you are doubting me on this because the majority of constructed frames are 3/16" stamped or welded boxed steel frames but due to their thin structure they will accordion upon frontal impact. The frames constructed with the double "c" channel produce a double thickness upper and lower section which adds severely to the rigidity of the frame and this design does not allow for any crush area to dissipate the energy of a frontal collision as easily as the light weight frames so the occupants take the brunt of the force.

Yes it is a strong frame but in case of an accident even with a seat belt the occupants neck is the weak point in a sudden stop.

So the question is, is it a good deal or do you feel lucky that you wont be in an accident.

 

I never knew "crush zones" were a major consideration in the design of aftermarket 32 frames. I guess it kind of shines a bad light on everyone that boxes frames or sells boxing plates.

 

Wow Dick, that is eye-opening to say the least. Just from your points and my limited knowledge I think the only time someone might even consider this frame would be for a truck or a heavier drivetrain.

 

Crumple zones?
The engine will be in your lap too.
I like the 33/34 henry style.
that's double construction but both inner and outer face the same way with the inner having plenty of lightening holes. Anyone making the inners reproduction?

 

Mr. Spadaro, I realize you are a well respected member of the hot rod community.

The safety aspect you are talking about of this frame may be true. I think most are not worried about the crashing end of this. The are worried about it handling the extra power and weight.

I doubt most are building thier car with collapsible steering coloums or guard beams in the doors. Those are some of the things that came about with crumple zone frames.
Part of the hot rod just will never be as safe as a new car.

 

I think the popular stance of most '32 fords will have the frame going under most of the vehicles they may collide with making the radiator and motor the most likely the first thing to start the the impact.

 

I used one with a BBC built, I just didn't think an original would have handled the extra horsepower and weight as well

 

Mr. Spadaro, After your eloquent rubbish, I think I'm going to hot rod a Prius!!!!!! There were never any crumple zones engineered into any body on frame car, so making the frame stronger really isn't going to make them more dangerous. (They already are horribly dangerous compared to a modern shitbox)
We build them to drive not wreck, it is about a state of mind.

 

Thanks, guys. I value ALL your comments.
After all, there are few things more useless than "yes men".

Any more input?

 

Yes, I have one under my Hemi powered 32.(Accu-rails) they were robot welded in a jig. This is my 2nd 32 with aftermarket frames. 1st was ASC rails with boxing plates. I believe the double C frame flexed less when you jack the frame on the corner. I don't see any reason not to use it.


Ago

 

Buy the frame and build the safest, best built car you can. Then be careful and drive the wheels off it.

It's a Hot Rod. None of them crash very well.

 

Would be nice for a roadster, that way you arms hanging over the door dont get pinched in the door jams when going over RR tracks.

 

Dicks comments are well taken, but, every time I get in my rod, I know, as I did back when I rode motorcycle, things won't go well if I hit something. Its part of the adventure and fun of driving something semi dangerous, the style car I grew up with, rode in as a child, cars that actually took a little skill to drive.
I wonder how the cars of today have "dumbed down" the average driver, seems most people haven't learned the necessary basics we had to know to get a license.
There weren't any "crash zones" built into my first cars, not even the hemi cuda I owned for a whole summer. (sold, it was a pig on gas, even then)

 

Survivability in a crash is rarely at the top of a hotrodder's list of criteria in building a car. Most, thank God, choose to use seat belts at a minimum. I feel that a car with a proper working suspension, shocks, brakes and steering in combination with common sense items such as adequate mirrors (1 inside, 2 outside), lap safety belts ( easy to install and to hide), turn signals (easy to install or wire into existing lights), safety glass (not plexi-glass or oem plate glass as in most cars prior to 1932), firewall between passenger compartment and trunk if the fuel tank is there.
My goal has always been to have a car that has the ability to be driven out of a tight spot if possible.

 

Might be worst in a head on collision or rear ender but would probably be stronger in
a t bone type accident. Good seat belts should be the first item on anyone's safety list
in any car that used 32 rails. If you really are that concerned about safety the car's that
use 32 type rails, up to and including my early 50 Chevy pickup is not the safest choice,
but a whole lot more fun and better looking than a new car/truck.

 

I don't have any experience with one of these frames but it does look like it would be very stiff. The smaller C channel looks much thicker than the 32 side rails. I can see Dick Spadoro's point.

 

Just make sure you get in an accident with a modern car. Then you can utilize their crumble zone.

 

Well said sir! And duck, so the flying cell phone doesn't hit you...

 

I gotta agree with dick. Sometimes overkill is good other times its not. That little bit it bends under impact could be huge on the occupants. Remeber the laws of physics. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. its not the fall that kills you its the sudden stop. going fast is just falling horizontal. I dont build my cars to be safe its a hot rod. I build my hot rod to be as safe as reasonable.

 

Great now define "reasonable" as you see it and what it means to you.

 

For those of us that own Deuce Hi Boy roadsters the last thing we think of if we have an accident is crumple zones. If it's fender less or full fendered, steel or glass, if we get "T" boned or rear ended it's pretty well over. My gas tank is in the stock location and if I get rear ended it's a 16 gallon bomb. If you like the chassis, buy it, build it and drive the wheels off it. Make it as safe as you can and have fun.

 

We had this conversation at our luncheon today and most agreed that Henry's design allowed the frame to flex and the new fully boxed frames are pure I-beams that do not flex or bend unless under compression (such as a head on collision). I do worry about an accident and try very hard to be a safe driver… but then the cell phone driver has no conscious and may be you worst enemy at a stop light in your Deuce hiboy. Regardless of frame design, a Hot Rod must be respected while on the road. Buy the frame, and enjoy it.

 

Hmmmm... crumple zones. Maybe those S10 frames are a better deal than is thought...

 

This is how you do it.

Crumple zones in an ladder frame, boxed or not.....thats cute..

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300262

 

What was it Jay Leno says about his 56 Buick?... Oh yeah, 'if you get in a wreck, they just hose off the dash and sell the car to somebody else...'

 

Crazy Steve, don't DARE let Ryan hear you utter those words about an s-10 frame.(hee hee)