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Hot Rods Has anyone sucessfully Drag Raced w/ a Triangulated four bar setup ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Littleman, Nov 7, 2009.

  1. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,614

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    I'am rethinking the rearend setup on DeathsDoorStep.....I have not gone back to look it over yet...but was thinking about it while driving back from a swapmeet today.......I made my own bars and used Art Morrison's setup as the model, I had called them and they gave me all the dimensions and such they seemed stout enough...so I made me a set up....do too tight room constraints on my setup I chose this design.........I am thinking of doing away w/ this setup due to fear it may not hookup @ the DragStrip....and going w/ a true and tried ladderbar custom made setup, but I think I will have to run them on the outside of the chassis..I will have to look to see if even possible........

    So I was wondering if anyone has had success with this type setup @ the Track running the triangulated four bar anywhere in the 10's to 9.99 ET's ?........I think if I keep the triangulated setup I will add a anti rollbar to it......I also know this basic setup comes from factory built origins....Thanks for your time, Littleman

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  2. vicksrods
    Joined: Nov 13, 2007
    Posts: 153

    vicksrods
    Member

    think about the thousands of late model mustangs that run with a set up similar to that. they generate some pretty quick ets with a foctory four link thats beefed up.
     
  3. gearsforguts
    Joined: Sep 18, 2005
    Posts: 385

    gearsforguts
    Member
    from temple,pa

    the guys with g-body gm products run below those times all the time,beefed up ofcoares
     
  4. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145

    Ruiner
    Member

    Ask any Chevelle owner if the adjustable triangulated setup works at the dragstrip...I wouldn't worry a damn about how short your bars are, unless you're worried about articulation for going over curbs and off-road driving...once you dial everything in, they work just fine...
     
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  5. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145

    Ruiner
    Member

    P.S. I would think about adding adjustable mount brackets front and rear on each bar, just to further dial everything in...if it's too late for that, then don't worry about it...
     
  6. CH3NO2JAY
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 244

    CH3NO2JAY
    Member
    from Chicago

    Last time (a good few years back) I was at R&B Automotive (Closed now for good :( ) they were building a Dodge SuperBee Clone Prostreet car with a triangulated four bar setup and the chassis was certified to go 7.50et or slower with the whole car setup/chassis. I highly doubt it will be pushed that hard, but 10's with a setup like that should not be a problem if the geometry/etc is all correct...
     
  7. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,314

    brandon
    Member

    run a anti roll bar and you'll be fine. its amazing what that thing will help . and get the instant center in a relatively good place.
     
  8. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,734

    JOECOOL
    Member

    With what I have been told over the years and my own experience I would say the four link would work great.
    A very good chassis guy once told me that the lenght of the bars is not important, it seems that the imaginary point that they intersect is the key ,the car doesn't know if they do not actually run together only that they are set to the imaginary point.
    I set my Corvette with the imaginary intersect point at the base of the front tire,I never adjusted it again as it always hooked great.
    The problem with a four link is you will need a sway bar to control roll rotation ,with the higher torque car the more you need it.
    A tradional ladder bar car has the sway bar effect built in so it saves a little weight and a little $.
    A ladder bar car will also ride a bit softer.
    Hope this helps,
     
  9. Toner283
    Joined: Feb 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,313

    Toner283
    Member

    As someone said, the gm "A" & "G" body cars have that setup from the mid 60's to the late 80's. check with any old time drag racer to see if they have any tricks they will share.
     
  10. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,614

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Thanks for all the replies.........I do know this design has been around a long time off the Detroit assembly lines and have witnessed plenty Mustangs strut their stuff @ the Strip!. I guess I should have asked if anyone has played w/ this type setup in a old HotRod built from scratch........I had plans of adding bar adjustment holes ...one up and one down in the future, thanks for the reminder........I will leave everything in place and add the anti roll bar and bar adjustments as planned and will look into the swaybar as JoeCool refered too....I know I can get this to work......But my little Model a pickup setup worked so well...it got me thinking..I will have to revisit how I set up the instant center and string it out..If I remember I think I had it intersect @ the back of the camshaft or below ?....but will need to verify...It's been too long since I worked on DDS..............Thanks again for the replies, Littleman
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  11. chevyshack
    Joined: Dec 28, 2008
    Posts: 950

    chevyshack
    Member

    Its hard to beat a four link when you have it dialed in right. My 81 cutlass has factory 4 link except i have solid control arms. My problem is i run street tires. I watch grandnationals try to pull the front wheels off the ground all day running 9's and 10's. If you dial it in you wont have a problem. Same setup Mustangs have to. Ever watch pinks? Just watched an episode with a white malibu wagon smacking the rear bumper everytime he ran it. They called it the wheelie wagon. Same 4 link as my cutlass.
     
  12. racer756
    Joined: May 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,322

    racer756
    Member

    I bet KIWIKEV might be of help.
     
  13. Cshabang
    Joined: Mar 30, 2004
    Posts: 2,458

    Cshabang
    Member

    i dont see any issues....time for me to start paying attention though...I know my experiences with friends cars tell me it'll hook hard dialed in....
     
  14. Toqwik
    Joined: Feb 1, 2003
    Posts: 1,286

    Toqwik
    Member

    Had a tri 4 link in my 28 and that thing hooked like a dream. I'd recommend it....
     
  15. adamabomb76
    Joined: Aug 5, 2007
    Posts: 282

    adamabomb76
    Member
    from York, Pa

    With the right tires...that thing looks like it will hook like a maniac, but overengineering isn't a bad thing. I'd pop a couple struts in from the top of the frame arc to the center of the rear crossmember for shits and giggles.
     
  16. 37FABRICATION
    Joined: Apr 4, 2007
    Posts: 672

    37FABRICATION
    Member

    This is one of the most commonly used setups for the strip. Assuming the angles are right, the next most important item is coilover shocks. I've found this is not an area to cut corners. If you buy the cheapo's you will be replacing them later...
     
  17. Seems like a very do-able deal.
    I wonder why it hasn't been tried before.

    An adjustment feature for instant center adjustment looks like a necessity.


    As weight conscious as drag racers are, a bonus in getting rid of a panhard bar is reason enough to give it a try.


    Brandon's comment on using an anti-roll bar is interesting.

    I put one in my 32.
    Even with an open diff and parallel rear 4-bars, seems to me it bites better than it should.

    Attributed to the big and soft tires, but I note that the chassis builders (Chris Alston, Morrison etc.) are supplying anti-roll bars for their drag racing setups so perhaps the bar in my 32 helps more than I realized.
    Originally installed to help cornering.


    Looks like there's room at the front of each bar to build a new, multi-hole bracket for adjustment.

    The rear brackets could be altered to be able to raise the top bar to help point it where it should go.
    The back of the bottom bar's bracket should be able to remain as is.
     
  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,150

    oj
    Member

    I'm with C9, make some adjustable brackets; the upper frame bracket is too low; could you take pic of the bracketry on the housing? Those brackets become a mechanical ratio (in referance to the axle) and the upper bars pull while the lower bars push. There is room to play with the range of the ratio but it would nice to see if you are in the ballpark.
     
  19. ty1295
    Joined: Feb 20, 2008
    Posts: 109

    ty1295
    Member
    from Indiana

    Did that same setup in my gmc typhoon. Still have the boost turned all the way down but running 1.58 60ft times on low boost and street tires.

    I did have to adjust IC, first guess at it didn't work at all, 2nd guess was much better and have ideas for further improvement so study IC and map what you have, you might be suprised -vs- what you think you have.
     
  20. cal1954
    Joined: Aug 1, 2008
    Posts: 107

    cal1954
    Member
    from Omaha, NE

    The upper and lower 4 link bars should intersect each other at 50 percent of the cars wheel base. With the lower bar being level at ride height. This is a simple formula that Jerry Bickel uses and it seems to work very well on drag and street setups. We used this setup on all the 4 link setups we did at Rad Rides by Troy and it works well!
     
  21. v8 Bake
    Joined: Dec 23, 2007
    Posts: 296

    v8 Bake
    Member

    Mine is a home made tri. 4 bar setup.Never been down a track but hooks VERY well on street tires with 500 hp and a 5 speed.All my friends are amazed at how my sedan hooks.
     
  22. Curly
    Joined: Jun 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,162

    Curly
    Member

    Hey LittleDude, I have an Excel spread sheet based on triangulated 4-link setups...plug in the numbers and it will spit out IC, CofG, roll center etc. I don't have it on this laptop but on my PC. I used it to set up my Art Morrison setup for the A truck. With some small tweaks here and there you can adjust your setup to be a canyon carver, hook like crazy, or with longer arms....climb rocks like a superstar. Pick up the Herb Adams suspension book to figure out what numbers you want to shoot for and then plug your numbers, tweak your current setup to get the numbers you want.

    I think you'll be happy with what you already have....and to refresh your memory you set up the intersect point at the back of the block 1/2 way between cam centerline and crank centerline from what you told me 2 years ago.

    I set mine up at front spindle. I originally was going to go with front tire contact patch but moved it around once I read the Herb Adams book. Since the SBC was taken out of the equation and a BBF was dropped in all the points have moved when you measure at ride height so Mark may have to do some adjusting to get things back to where they should be.
     
  23. Astrochimp
    Joined: Sep 15, 2009
    Posts: 192

    Astrochimp
    Member
    from NE Mo.

    Also Fred Phun "How to make your car handle".

    At one time HO Racing had some info online showing how torque effected the rear end, very good easy to understand read.

    Watch for bind on your set-up, (it should move smoothly full suspension travel) as it makes for nasty drag strip surprises.


    David
     
  24. Deadmans Dave
    Joined: Jul 26, 2009
    Posts: 54

    Deadmans Dave
    Member

    It is OK on the street. When I put a little power and had some traction I got some bad wheel hop. I put all now Poly bushings and it still got screwy when the tires broke lose a little bit and bit again. Bad .
     
  25. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,614

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Have you looked into where your lower and upper bars intersect towards the front ?.........Littleman
     
  26. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,614

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Thanks Curlydude...........I will still double check where they ended up intersecting.....I almost called ya today..been a while since we talked......Dave

    Thanks everyone for the info !!!!
     
  27. super plus
    Joined: Dec 14, 2006
    Posts: 566

    super plus
    BANNED

    The bottom bar should be on a slight downward angle toward the front , get rid of the rubber or poly bushings , should be steel(Good Heims)
     
  28. claymore
    Joined: Feb 21, 2009
    Posts: 896

    claymore
    BANNED

    If you don't want to go with a sway bar setup just use an accessory airbag on the right side only. Not the one for raising and lowering frame grinders but the one for drag racing that normally goes inside a coil spring it does the same thing with less weight and setup fabrication. It stops the twisting of the frame and body by preloading the passenger side and making that side just that bit harder to compress equalizing the forces on a hard launch.
     
  29. super plus
    Joined: Dec 14, 2006
    Posts: 566

    super plus
    BANNED

    Thew car will never 60 ft with rubber or poly bushings, bad 60ft means slow ET
     
  30. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,314

    brandon
    Member

    i know from asking chassis guys and such , if you figure in some additional pinion angle , you can run rubber. on a g or a body gm , 4 degrees down on the pinion , where as with good heims and such , it was only 2 to 2.5 down. my current model a coupe , the i/c is set at the midplate area and about 10" off the ground. my old sedan was set at 8" or so up and at the tip of the tail shaft. it went low 1.7's with 2.76's and 235/75's and a REAL mild 350. also after researching the lower control arm angle deal , most guys said to set the bottom bar level. unless your running a tall ass rear tire and a full tube chassis drag car. :rolleyes:
     

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