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Technical Has anyone ever had this Hemi issue?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Hackman, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. Now correct me if im wrong but if the valve were to hang up in the guide, the valve would hang open every revolution thus causing a miss and a tick. But it does not miss just ticks. The exhaust valve guides have an oil hole to "lube" them by design and do not have a stem seal. Chrysler must have had a reason for this. If the cam were to blame, the engine would miss. I had a cam go bad on me in a chevy and I know that death sound. The only other thing that I can come up with is the lifter bore and or the oil supply.
     
  2. A valve consistently hanging would cause a miss.
    On the closing side:
    If its just a little sticky close to the fully seated position it could take the rocker off the valve just long enough to cause a tick. Tightening up the preload fixes it for a bit. Putting your palm on it quiets it because you are maintaining valve/rocker contact.

    You could have a very slight coil bind or sticky spot in the spring or a rotater that's clicking or causing the rocker to come off the valve.

    You could have a defected push rod causing some problem just off of seated position.

    Eliminating those possible causes by switching to see if problem follows parts, would only take a few minutes, if a problem shows there its an easy cheap fix.

    What's left would be rockers or shaft in that position.
    A bit harder and more expensive to fix.

    That leaves only the valve, but if you change rockers you could look at that easy enough since your heads will be off for gaskets.

    On the opening side:
    You are losing your preload, lifters (eliminated), oil supply ( blockage), worn lifter bore, all of that is considerably more involved and requires much more money to correct.

    If it were mine, I'd do that before a tear down.
     
  3. Yes sir. You are right. I will try this and get back to the board. Thanks again!
     
  4. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,768

    Dyce
    Member


    I thought the same thing about it being quiet for a little bit. You might be giving the valve a chance to push the seat back into place. I do think the seat dropping makes sense when you say it only happens after the engine warms up. Most valve seats are a nickel alloy. The expand at generally the same rate cast iron expands. The trouble with the high nickel is if you get it to hot, when it cools it contracts, or it will shrink and you will loose some of the press fit.
     
  5. Wow, If this is whats going on, HOLY SHIT! On the other hand, there also seems to be the #4 intake rocker that is doing the same thing, but not as bad. The intakes do not have hard seats. So I dont know about that one. The one culprit that keeps in the mix is the oil flow.
     
  6. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,995

    George
    Member

    On a normal engine oil sitting under the valve cover would run down the stems w/o seals. On a hemi the ex valve is hanging upside down & oil can't run up.
     
  7. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,572

    4tford
    Member

    My hemi had the cam bearings in wrong so the left bank was not getting oil, Yours is not this problem but I found issues with oil passages when I torn the engine down even though it was tanked when it was machined and rebuilt. I think number 4 cam bearing feeds the right side rocker shafts and comes up the stanchion between #6 and #8 cylinders. Any chance rocker shafts got crud in them or oilpassages gunked up? Were the rocker assemblies rebuilt?
     
  8. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,048

    sunbeam
    Member

    If your push rod will adjust far enough just collapse the lifter. Maybe give it .005 clearence let it idle and see if the noise comes back if not it will eliminate a lot of stuff.
     
  9. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,572

    4tford
    Member

    One more thought, If you had the heads milled or block decked and went with the bigger adj push rods did you open up the push rod holes for clearence? They can rub and cause binding or noise you are hearing.
     
  10. The rocker assemblies are stock ones that were not rebuilt. The engine had about 10,000 miles on it when it burned a piston. The engine was pulled and replace. I took the shatfts apart and cleaned them up. They were in really nice shape. I suppose something may have gotten loose in there and plugged something up. Good thinking 4tford. But would the problem be worse when the engine was cold?

    Thanks
    Hack
     
  11. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,572

    4tford
    Member

    If oil passages do have crud it would flow less with cold oil (thicker) than hot oil so it is possible especially hemi engines that do not get alot of oil top end anyway. Is your oil black after you change it with few miles on it could tell you there is gunked up passages. I would think that cold oil would be enough to maintain tolerence than hot oil. The lifter bore tolerence is critical for keeping the lifter pumped up so oil thining out might be enough. Have you tried a straight 30 weight or 40W for that matter?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  12. fossilfish
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 320

    fossilfish
    Member
    from Texas

    Burnt piston huh? Normally a burnt piston is caused by excess heat in chamber...maybe lean condition? Did you fix the cause of the burnt piston? Is the cause still heating up the chamber? Is it hot enough to say seize a tight guide? Just asking?
     
  13. GTSDave
    Joined: Jan 10, 2008
    Posts: 133

    GTSDave
    Member

    Before tearing everything down, if it were mine I would swap the rocker assemblies between the left bank and right bank.

    If it moves then your problem is in the rocker assembly.

    -Dave
     
  14. chopnchaneled
    Joined: Oct 21, 2004
    Posts: 1,285

    chopnchaneled
    Member
    from Buford Ga.

    I read your post from start to finish and what you are describing sounds like something dog patch on here was having with his a while back, you might contact him.
     
  15. Update!

    So I just want to start by saying thanks to everyone that has helped me out on this issue. Without the HAMB's usefull resources I would still be chasing this problem.

    Turns out my problem was due to some gunk in the rocker shafts. I had torn the engine down to the rotating assembly and started cleaning everything. I also went with a different cam combo that is a little more agressive.

    Upon break in, the engine sounds great. This cam has a bit more overlap so it sounds awesome and seems to make more power to boot.

    I decided to change the pushrods while I was in there as I just wanted to rule out any more possible issues. I thought I had cleaned the shafts up pretty darn good the first time but I guess the heat will make things move that otherwise wouldnt have.

    Thanks again for all the help. I would sure like to put up a vid clip to show the results as soon as I get the correct camera.

    See ya out there
    A happy and relieved,
    Hack
     
  16. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    This can not be stressed enough!!!!!! You MUST pull the end plugs when cleaning early hemi rocker shafts!!!!!!!
     
  17. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Great to hear your problem is solved!

    Also a good thread to bring up when people insist on NOT cleaning rocker shafts. It's REALLY not that difficult and is a great way to get to know your valve train and any ware that may cause you problems now or later.

    Now... We need a video to prove you got it running again. ;):D
     
  18. Haha You got it Scooter! ASAP. And TR I totally agree. Its an easy step, cheap insurance and peace of mind.

    Thanks again HAMB
     
  19. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    i am in the prosses of building my 354, this winter when i rebuilt my rocker assembly the shafts were filled with gunk, that stuff would have not come out without taking the plugs out and passing a brush true them, actualy i would have lost oil pressure because one of the end plugs was loose, only the cotter pin was holding it in place. every little thing has to be checked.
     
  20. aussie oldie
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 393

    aussie oldie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow, what an interesting post. Glad you got it sorted Hackman. Love reading these hemi stories. You never know when it will help someone else. The hamb comes thru again!!
    What I did notice is you said you had nice pushrods that were 3/8'' with 5/16'' ends. I don't know what followers you ended up with, but I think the white box ones take the 1/4'' ball. Please correct me if I am wrong.
    Phil.
     
  21. Old thread I know. But there was a video request and I finally got a YouTube channel going. Search hatchethotrods on Youtube and there are a couple of the Hemi T on there.

    Hack

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  22. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    If you had an .842 lifter in a .904 hole, lifter noise would be the LEAST of your problems! And there would be a louder noise a little lower down...:rolleyes:
     
  23. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And...

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/G2J8Yc-iB9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BccFV9yzTJ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  24. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 898

    Bert Kollar
    Member

    FYI my Jaguar V12 required 50W oil or the oil pressure almost disappeared. I ran 50W in my really hot VW engines and loved it
     
  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,995

    George
    Member

    Just trying to save someone from the hassle of ordering the wrong 812s & then having to send them back or finding out they don't take returns.
     
  26. artificer64
    Joined: Nov 26, 2011
    Posts: 39

    artificer64
    Member
    from maine

    Here, here man.
    Thanks
     
    aussie oldie likes this.
  27. A buddy had problems with two sets of Hot Heads no name ”white box” lifters. Swapped them for Lunati 440-lifters - problems gone.
     
  28. rsss396
    Joined: Aug 30, 2009
    Posts: 111

    rsss396
    Member

    Going to bring this back up, even though I am not really ready to dig deep into it yet. So I have been dealing with this same dreaded tick in my 55 331 with isky hyd cam and hotheads lifters. I run brand new shafts and all the stands and rockers where soaked and carefully cleaned by running the proper sized reamer in every hole and fully blowing out any loose material out and then again soaking and blowing out. I read allot about issues of clogged passages so I really tried to be careful in this area.
    It does the same thing as Hackman's, when its cold it makes no noise, but after it warms up from driving it starts ticking mostly from the #4 intake. I have adjusted the push rod some but it doesn't go away.
    So the interesting thing I just noticed was, this last weekend I had engine coolant temps get up around 230 from sitting in crawling traffic in 90 degree weather at the NSRA event in Louisville.
    Both the car ahead of me and behind me, had to pull over from blowing coolant all over. I did not have any issues like that, but I was a little concerned I was going down next. So anyways the strange thing was even though the motor was extremely hot it never ticked the whole time, not until I got out on the highway and turned some rpms with it. In the past I really never allowed the motor to get real hot by just idling or staying at lower rpms for long length of time. What I mean by rpms is getting up over 2500 rpms or so, this fall I am going to dig deeper to hopefully quite this down, allot of good information here so I will try everyone's suggestions!
    Dave
     
  29. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,995

    George
    Member

    The early 361/413 lifters work well.

    It took a number of tries to get the adj. push rods just right on my 331.
     
    rsss396 likes this.
  30. rsss396
    Joined: Aug 30, 2009
    Posts: 111

    rsss396
    Member

    hopefully it not a cam issue, motor has over 600 miles so kinda don't think its that but.....
    I do notice the push rod spins slower on that valve and when I adjusted it so it spun faster like the others it would still tick soooo....
     

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