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Hot Rods Halibrand/Champ./Q/C Help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 48 Ragtop, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. I Need Photos Showing Instalation Of A Halibrand Champ Quick Change With Live Axles. In A `33-34 Ford Frame With A Model "A" Rear Spring.

  2. Need Help Please!!!!
  3. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    from Colorado

    Can't help with any pics, but your question has me confused. Generally speaking a 'live' axle is what is refered to as used in a sprint car: one piece axle with no differential, like a go-kart. Your word axle's' on the other hand, would imply two axles/diff/housings. (?)
  4. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,257


    What Rootie said and the model 'a' has top mount spring and its' own banjo slightly small than the V8 banjo that the quickchange is based on. Theres' lots of 'a's out there with QC's but they'll usually have a different spring setup.
    The other confusing thing is the referance to 'champ' style QC as these won't work with a banjo - they are way bigger, although folks like winters etc have adaptors which are right salty.
    So to sum up, a live axle is just that, there isn't any covering and you can watch it spin, the model 'a' rear spring is difficult to use a QC with and the champ style isn't popular in hot rodding - in light of all that it'll be hard to find a picture of one. Of course, soon as i say it ain't so there'll be a dozen of them posted.

  5. Thanks Rootie Kazoootie And Oj For Your Reply.
  6. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?

    could you have possibly meant "floating axles" such as big truck stuff or common on older super modifyed or stock cars? Just thinking...
  7. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,494

    Atwater Mike

    Why do you guys say a Model A spring is difficult to use with a Quickie???

    All the Quickies I ever installed (with transverse leaf rear) HAD to have an 'A' rear spring. (or a 'T') They are configured with the 'camel back', or 'high back' a scared cat!)
    The '32, '33, '34 springs were shaped for clearance for the stock banjo, but would interfere with the spur box of a Quick Change. The 'T' and 'A' hoops right over the case.
  8. I Really Don't Know The Proper Name Of This Type Axle, But You See The Axle Turning With Out A Outer Housing.
  9. A Model "A" Spring On A V8 Q/C No Proplem, But With Champ Q/C Different Story.
  10. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,921

    from Wa.

    Here is a couple of pics of the champ in my roadster.
    Model A spring..Closed driveline..spline drive hubs.
    The pic shows pin drive hubs but they were changed out later.
    Straight out of an early sprint car.
    I'm always glad to see people using old sprint car and midget stuff.
    It is a lot stronger and safer than junk yard parts.

    Attached Files:

  11. Thanks Pete 1 Thats What I Needed, Thanks Agan.
  12. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?

    Then what you have is a "live axle" or "open axle" quick change, depending on geography. You can actually convert this to a standard "closed axle" type unit with the purchase of the correct side bells, axle tubes, ends, and axles. Now here comes the rub... "champ", "midget', and "v8" quick changes are all different deals as far as size goes. Midget quick changes were based on Model "A" Ford internals and ran almost exclusively in midgets. "V8" quickchanges use '35 - '48 Ford V8 internals and are a bit larger. "Champ quickchanges were based on '37-'52 Ford 1 ton and larger internals and have a larger case still. These were used in larger forms of roundy round cars like sprints and at one time Indy roadsters. You kind of have to know what you have before you can figure out mounting and suspension stuff for it. And, I do second what atwater Mike said above about Model "A" springs being damn near manditory as far as mounting these with a cross leaf spring. A great way to familurize your self with the different quick changes is to order Speedways sprint, midget, and stock car catalogs and do some looking.
  13. Thanks need louvers ? Ordered Speedway Catalogs Today.
  14. 48 Chubby
    Joined: Apr 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,014

    48 Chubby
    Member Emeritus

    Maybe I got the wrong idea but are you speaking of a quick change center sectioned independant rear like a Hight's(spellng?) type rear end? Where you can see the axle half shafts spinning with the U joints in em.
  15. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610


    The live axle has what are called bird cages that hold the outer wheel bearings and mounting points for suspension. These cages could hold the radius rods and the "A" spring mounts.
  16. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?

    Yes a live axle can be hung and used on the street, but it just isn't going to be happy with no differential and all. And I'm not aware of a way to set up a differential with a live axle. Trust me, I have been in on this deal before...
  17. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    from Colorado

    Here's some stuff you can peruse while waiting on your catalog.

    Attached Files:

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  18. metal bender
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 177

    metal bender
    from texas

    I, just put a Halibrand Q. C. in my 1930 ford coupe using all the old guts form the 30 rear end and same rear spring plus mechanincle brakes . Shell go 60 mph. now with a lower rpm . :rolleyes:
  19. Avgas
    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Posts: 281


    I have set up several A springs in 34 and 32 chassis, all using 36 Ford V8 or Pilot rear radius rods. There is a little more work in locating the rear cross member for this install due the positioning of the axle centre line and parralleling the crossmember to shackle plane,but I believe the look of a set of early radius rods, model A spring and Halibrand rear are true representations of the genises of "Hot Rodding" and maybe never visually surpassed! If you still require pics let me know and I will go looking .
  20. gibraltar72
    Joined: Jan 21, 2011
    Posts: 260

    from Osseo Mi.

    I'm sure you have figured it out by now. But just in case you haven't a live rear axle as used in sprint cars uses a bird cage with bearigs to hold axle at outer ends. The birdcage has pickup points for radius rods and torsion arms or coil suspension. also typically a jacobs ladder om right side to locate axle side to side. The problem with Bird cages is lubricating the bearings. Routine maintainance on a sprint car is after each night of racing take apart the birdcage bearings and clean and pack. Not real user friendly on a street rod. good luck.
  21. sr
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 400

    from Monterey

    look at the oct or april 63 hot rod magazine with Don Waites 29 roadster. It had a v8 quick change, live axles and torsion bars in the rear. It will answer all your questions. I may have photos. I used to own the car and I restored it. It is now in the NHRA museum. Did i just toot my own horn. well dam it i guess i did. oh well. sorry.

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