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Had a terrible weekend, need advice on a crate engine

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Speedon, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Speed~On
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,270

    Speed~On
    Member

    Hey HAMBERS,
    I had a rather unpleasant weekend. Over the Winter I had a 327 built. Myself and a friend put it in my Model A coupe on Saturday. On Sunday we fired it up. This engine has been gone through and has a lot of new parts. On the shakedown run we noticed oil running down the windshield. We went back to my house and noticed oil leaking from the intake manifold and both valve covers. Oil was blowing from the breather and both the front and rear main seals are leaking. It blew 1 quart of oil from the engine in a pretty short period of time. Monday we noticed water seaping out the side of the block, so I have a cracked block as well. Needless to say this engine is not going to work for me. I am going to pull it and I'm trying to decide which crate engine to purchase.

    I am not in need of a ton of horsepower as my Model A (with engine) does not weigh much. I am considering the engines below.

    Does anyone have any experience with these two engines??? Good or bad I need to know. I can't afford (time and $$$) to have another bad engine.

    Engine 1
    http://high-performance-engines.com...?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ATK&Product_Code=HP29

    Engine 2
    http://www.summitracing.com/search/...-C-I-D-290-HP-Engine-Assemblies/?autoview=SKU

    I would greatly appreciate some HAMBER help here. :(

    Thanks in advance everyone!! You guys and galls are great. :)

    Down and out...
    -Speedon
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  2. 53Hattie
    Joined: Mar 11, 2010
    Posts: 374

    53Hattie
    Member

    Sorry about your misfortune. Afraid I can't advise you on the crate engine choice. I would however advise you get the biggest crowbar you can lay your hands on & go have a little "discussion" with the joker who built the 327!
     
  3. are you running a pcv? is the motor vented? might be better off fixing what you have.
     
  4. With todays oil and the lack of zinc in the oil I would advise getting it with the factory roller cam. I did when I got my 350 and am I ever glad, no worries about worn lobes on the cam with roller lifters. Mine is out of a 87 to 92 Chevy truck.
     

  5. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,813

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Geez man...I dunno...I kind of like to go with the devil you know thing...

    See what you can do to fix the engine you have. (you already own it) Lots of things can cause oil to barf out of your breathers..usually it is PVC related. (or lack of) And, look reeeeal close at your water leak. Don't jump to the cracked block conclusion untill you can actually SEE the water leaking from a crack.

    You might have a head gasket, freeze plug or something else dripping down the side of the block.

    Don't give up untill you are SURE you are fucked. And then, still don't give up.

    Good luck, -Abone.
     
  6. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 6,930

    19Fordy
    Member

    Sound like the engine needs a crankcase ventilation system.
     
  7. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,720

    junk yard kid
    Member

    If it wasnt venting right and the timing was off........ You could definitely fix it by throwing a new motor at it. But that may not be necessary and if its something else fixed faster.
     
  8. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,660

    Larry T
    Member

    I've installed several of the 195hp engines in customers cars and never had any problems with them. That being said, if it were for one of my vehicles I'd go with the 290hp engine. An extra 100hp for $500.00 is a pretty good return on the dollar.
    Larry T
     
  9. 1gearhead
    Joined: Aug 4, 2005
    Posts: 465

    1gearhead
    Member

    I am very familiar with both of these engines. We have installed several in customer cars.
    I would not consider the 195 HP engine a create motor. It is a Goodwrench motor. Not the same as a GM Performance Crate Engine. The 290 HP 350" engine is a great engine. I have lots of success with this engine. It is an excellent runner and cruiser, while still having very good performance. It has an old style appearance in that it features 3/8" 12 bolt fastening pattern to the heads. and side bolt valve covers. You couldn't build an engine of this HP and quality for what it costs. The 290 HP would be my choice.
     
  10. budd
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 3,478

    budd
    Member

    sounds like you might be pressurizing the crankcase, maybe you blew a head gasket? have you checked the compression?
     
  11. redzula
    Joined: Jul 6, 2011
    Posts: 870

    redzula
    Member

    never used either but I agree 100 extra HP for $500 thats the route I'd go
     
  12. I would put a good crankcase ventilation system in and look hard at that water leak before I dumped the motor. It might now be all that bad. Good luck either way, that's some frustrating stuff.
     
  13. jack orchard
    Joined: Aug 20, 2011
    Posts: 238

    jack orchard
    Member

    i agree with Flamedabone, take a little time to be sure what you have...jack
     
  14. nutajunka
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,466

    nutajunka

    I think sbc's are one of the easiest engine to build, so that leads me to believe someone didn't know what they were doing. If your not into engine building, maybe drop it off at a good machine shop and let them tear it down. Could be something simple or could be a mess, but cheaper to find out either way you do decide to go.
     
  15. Speed~On
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,270

    Speed~On
    Member

    I had the same issue last Fall (with this engine) when we initially got the Model A running for the first time. Thats why I had the guy go through the engine over the Winter. He rebuilt it (again) and now I'm having the same issues. Last Fall we ran the car and had oil running down the windshield as well as the visor, top of the cowl, both sides of the cowl...oil was everywhere. We pulled the engine last Fall for the rebuild.
    However, last Fall I did try and troubleshoot this "oil blowing issue". I am running a PCV valve which runs from the valve cover to the front of the new Edelbrock carb. On the other valve cover is a breather. I tried running 2 breathers as I disconnected the PCV valve to carb and ran breathers on both sides. Still....no luck...oil kept blowing. The engine builder says this oil pump is just a standard pump and is nothing big. I can't figure out why the crankcase is not venting or how to fix it.
    He looked for issues that could cause crankcase pressure when he rebuilt the engine this Winter and he said he didn't find anything that could cause the problem.

    All I know is it sucks getting to a car show and you stink of oil. Also your car is literally COVERED in oil. It gets to be a pain in the ass pretty quick.:D.

    I will fire the car up Friday and get the engine warmed up. I will video the engine seaping water so you guys can see. Maybe you have some suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  16. i recently put one of the 290 hp performance engines in a '49 international pickup, i thought it was the best value for the money. i did not buy it from summit thou.
     
  17. gibraltar72
    Joined: Jan 21, 2011
    Posts: 260

    gibraltar72
    Member
    from Osseo Mi.

    If you can't fix your current engine, and I hope you can. I believe one of the current car mags maybe car craft or hot rod just started a build with a GM 290 horse. If I remember they bought it from Nickey Chevrolet. Anyone here old enough to remember click with Nickey? anyhow I think they priced it at less that 1600 from them. good luck.
     
  18. pastlane
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,063

    pastlane
    Member

    what did the rebuilt consist of? Sounds like there is little to no ring seal if the pcv couldn't handle the crankcase pressure.
     
  19. 1959apache
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,627

    1959apache
    Member

    Think simple man..... its an easy fix. It always is... I just think you are frustrated and aren't thinking rationally (I do it all the time)... but one think my Dad taught me when working on cars and troubleshooting was that "YOU can fix it, its simple... just cool your jets and think logically, it can only be a few things"


    One thing that maybe an issue is that you have connected the carb and breather in wrong or they aren't doing their job correctly.

    Did that guy rebuild the heads when the engine was rebuilt? One issue that I saw when working for an engine builder was that the seals for the valves in the head went bad and combustion pressure was leaking into the crank case, thus blowing oil all over. In addition, it is easy to accidentally line up the rings, even when installing them into the block (depending on the quality of your ring compressor), which could also cause the pressure to bleed into the crank case. One easy test you can run to see if there is an issue with a cylinder (head or ring issue) is to run a compression check on each cylinder. That would rule out some of the large issues that would require an engine tear down and wouldn't take long to do. If there aren't any issues there then it is just a breather issue, which can easily be solved.

    As far as the coolant problem, more than likely its an easy issue. Engine blocks are cheap in the junk yard and would only be a couple hundred to get it bored out, etc. No big deal... WAYYY better and cheaper than a crate engine
     
  20. Speed~On
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,270

    Speed~On
    Member

    Allright, I ran out to the garage, here are a few photos, doubt they will help but atleat you can see the engine.

    Don't bust my balls about the valve covers. We threw those on there in our trouble shooting process, I usually run cool finned covers. These valve covers dont have any baffles inside, that seemed to help a little. Also dont bust meez nuts over the rubber fuel line, I have the steel line I was going to run...until this current "issue" resurfaced.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  21. If I were to go new, it would be this one
    GM Performance 12530282 - GM Performance 350 C.I.D. 9.4:1 Truck Long Block Assemblies
    http://m.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12530282
    $ 2090.00

    Compression bump, vortec heads, roller cam
    Maybe id change the cam profile maybe not.
    Them valve covers are junk. The crate motor's and yours too lol.


    Before I did that , id do like these other guys say and make sure you are screwed before buying another motor. Like the crow bar idea too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  22. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,660

    Larry T
    Member

    I doubt that you could build a junk yard engine equal to the crate engine for less than 3000.00-3500.00. Remember it's ALL new stuff.
    Larry T
     
  23. Speed~On
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,270

    Speed~On
    Member

    Pastlane,
    The recent rebuild consisted of new pistons and rings. He thought the rings got washed out from too much fuel getting dumped into the engine, thus creating "ring flutter"????
    This Spring I put on a new Edelbrock air gap intake, new Edelbrock 600 CFM carb, new fuel pump. I gave him a new Felpro gasket kit for the rebuild, so the gaskets are quality.
     
  24. The OP said his engine is all full of new stuff, but possible cracked block.
     
  25. fabmancoe
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 62

    fabmancoe
    Member

    Two strikes on engine guy...ask for compensation from him... buy the gm perf. 290hp is a no brainer...great engine, great price. Sounds like the 27 has some serious problems..save it and fix it if possible after your ride is back on track. You can always sell it after you unfuck it! Good Luck
     
  26. I'm with jeff on this one. Gaskets are not that big a deal to change and you got to pull the engine anyway if you are going to change it.

    Hard to believe that someone screwing a small block together could have ruined it totally. Take a day or two off then give it a good look see with fresh eyes. You may just find it is piddly stuff that you can sort out yourself cheap and quick.
     
  27. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,660

    Larry T
    Member

    OK, I wasn't considering using all the parts out of the original engine. I'll bet it's still not gonna be a 1/2 price rebuild, even using the used 327 parts. You have to take into consideration vatting the block, new cam bearings, teardown and assembly, etc. The little stuff adds up.

    I know you can say labor doesn't cost anything if you do it yourself, but then you're comparing apples to oranges. And don't forget warrantee.
    Larry T
     
  28. TxRat
    Joined: Dec 22, 2004
    Posts: 1,412

    TxRat
    Member

    If its a true 327 block there should have been a road tube on the back of the block, Did you plug the block or is it still on the motor

    Check and see if you have vacuum at the PCV valve from idle up through RPM range
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  29. Speed~On
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,270

    Speed~On
    Member

  30. budd
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 3,478

    budd
    Member

    it doesnt look to bad, your breather is not pumping oil out on the valve cover, it's a little hard to tell which way the cardboard is under the car, anyway, before i would go out and buy an engine i'd pull that one and run it on a stand where you can really see whats going on, i'm guessing you didn't do that before you installed it.
     

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