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HA/GR Rules...

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by Ryan, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 18,306

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    Rules

    1. Stock or modified stock frame rails, rectangular tube or round tube 3′’ diameter or larger.
    2. Stock width front axles and rear ends only.
    3. All cars must be equipped with a minimum four point roll bar of 1 3/4″ tubing with a main hoop higher than the driver’s head and 2 support bars down to the frame towards the firewall. Tubing must meet NHRA minimum wall thickness for application.
    4. Cars with keyed axles must use hub safety retainers.
    5. Closed drivelines are encouraged. If open driveline is used driveshaft must have a 1 1/2″ x 1/4″ “driveshaft loop” within 6 1/2″ of front and rear universal joints and be totally covered/sealed off from driver with steel or aluminum floor pan.
    6. Cars must have cowl or body and proper floor boards/belly pan to prevent driver’s legs from exiting vehicle in event of a crash. firewall mandatory.
    7. No “slingshot” chassis. Driver and engine must be positioned between the front and rear axles.
    8. Cars must be equipped with an engine mounted starter and be self starting.
    9. Batteries must be securely mounted and fully enclosed.
    10. All cars must have a master battery cutoff switch accessible from outside the car.
    11. All cars must have at least one red rear running light for night racing.
    12. Flathead v8 or inlines, pre-1962 inline engines with stock cylinder blocks only. No exotic aftermarket inline six overhead valve heads (Wayne). No OHV V8s or V6s. (If you are looking to run a straight 6 with exotic heads or a flathead with an o/h conversion, contact Ryan for some good news.)
    13. Engines must be naturally aspirated. No superchargers, turbos, nitrous oxide or fuel injection.
    14. No electronic ignition boxes that mount outside the distributor or “coil in cap” HEIs. Conversions such as “ignitor” or “stinger” that fit within a stock dist cap are allowed. Aftermarket magnetos not allowed.
    15. Pump gas/racing gas only. No Methanol, nitromethane, or alcohol.
    16. Era specific carbs only, stock appearing- no modern Holley, Edelbrock, or other aftermarket carbs.
    17. Fuel lines can have no single rubber piece longer than 24″, must be fastened by hose clamps, not hard or cracked.
    18. Cars equipped with a cooling system or water tank must use a radiator cap and overflow/catch can system.
    19. Automatic transmissions are not allowed. All cars with clutches must run a stamped steel bell housing or a 1/4″ scatter shield.
    20. Cars must have rims no wider than 6″ and only bias ply street treaded tires allowed. No radials, slicks, or cheater slicks allowed. Tire tread width must measure no more than 6″.
    21. Drivers must wear full face helmet, single layer (or more) fire retardant jacket or suit, gloves, jeans (or fire retardant pants), and leather shoes.
    22. Five point NHRA approved safety harness required.
    23. All cars must be of general soundness and safety. Must have all lug nuts, sound steering, cotter pins in place, and heim ends “captured” etc. Must pass all tracks general safety rules.
    24. No electronic/pneumatic drivers aids such as rev limiters, two steps, shift lights or electric shifters. Tachometers are allowed if they don’t have a rev limiter or a shift light.
    25. Cars must be built in the spirit of the “Bug” and other early rail jobs. If ya aren’t familiar, ya better ask…
    26. All HA/GR cars are required to run a H.A.M.B. Logo in a visible location.
     
  2. REJ
    Joined: Mar 4, 2004
    Posts: 1,612

    REJ
    Member
    from FLA

    Thanks Ryan.
     
  3. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,455

    panic

    modern Holley?

    Holley 4150 dates to before your engine cut-off, about 1958.
     
  4. Hemibaker
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 56

    Hemibaker
    Member

    What was the ruling on the Holley carb and whay are automatics not allowed?
    I meet all of the other rules. I do have a pre 1961 Holley carb on my HAMB. I want to attend the th National in MOKAN but I do not want to get their and be told I can not race. Thanks for the help.
     
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  5. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,377

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Hemibaker, attend Mokan and enjoy yourself. With a quad and a slushpump you'll be run in dragster class, it's not necessary to be an HA/GR to run at Mokan.

    As far as HA/GR specifics, they are what they are for reasons that not everybody seems to get, and are quite unlikely to change for those same reasons. A little searching on the site'll explain everything (ad nauseum) if you're looking to understand the why of it. If you're only searching for a chink in it don't bother.
     
  6. PurplePearl50
    Joined: Aug 1, 2007
    Posts: 816

    PurplePearl50
    Member
    from Sedalia,Mo

    anyone have a link or a "guide" thats more indepth on rules. frame/tube wall thinkness, wheel base ect
     
  7. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 3,873

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Rules #1 & #3 pretty much cover it. I believe the N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) group specifies the cage be .093 wall if chrome-moly and .125 wall if mild steel. Wheelbase is what ever you desire but I believe that generally folks aren't building anything much shorter than 90" and probably not much longer than 120" or so. I really don't see much need to build a 190" chassis for one of these unless you feel the need to create something strange just for the effect like two Buick straight eights in a row.:cool:

    The whole idea for the class is that you shouldn't need more rules than the one page we have, and there aren't any plans or blueprints for these cars. Just sketch it out on the garage floor with some chalk and start sticking stuff together. Early style, home built, run what ya brung rails.
     
  8. troy5118
    Joined: Oct 21, 2008
    Posts: 90

    troy5118
    Member
    from Haven Ks

    "Flathead v8 or inlines, pre-1962 inline engines with stock cylinder blocks only. No exotic aftermarket inline six overhead valve heads"

    So an inline buick 8 ohv would qualify?
     
  9. yep. There's one in Australia already. BUILD IT!!!!
     
  10. troy5118
    Joined: Oct 21, 2008
    Posts: 90

    troy5118
    Member
    from Haven Ks

    Nice, I better go after it then! Thx
     
  11. hogfarmer
    Joined: Jun 14, 2009
    Posts: 1

    hogfarmer
    Member

    Hi, Whats the average wheel base of a Ha GR dragster?
     
  12. Rand Man
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 3,366

    Rand Man
    Member

    Most tracks won't allow a wheelbase shorter than 90 inches. Mine (and several others) are around 120 inches, because it looks good. If I built another it would be a little shorter, to save the pounds.
     
  13. 6ck Pony
    Joined: May 11, 2007
    Posts: 76

    6ck Pony
    Member

    Is this a stock front axle?:eek:
    I just saw this on another thread and had to bring it here.
     

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  14. Calkins
    Joined: Jun 20, 2009
    Posts: 188

    Calkins
    Member

    For a trike!
     
  15. ceegrey
    Joined: Sep 26, 2008
    Posts: 93

    ceegrey
    Member

    Thanks Ryan, the info is much appreciated. Several of the locals have become interested in the concept, there is still plenty of parts about so I think the only thing to do is to get started.
    ceegrey
     
  16. Dirts32
    Joined: Sep 9, 2005
    Posts: 14

    Dirts32
    Member

    I've had the pleasure of inspecting The Bug, up close and personal. I understand the escence of the "run what you brung" Hamb rules, but.........
    I started racing at Famoso dragstrip when a Smokers flagman started 4 cars off at a time (I have photos somewhere). The only car I couldn't beat in M Stock was an Olds with a hydro. I partially paralized myself in a sreet car accident, Non 29. 1963. Sticks were to difficult to drive street/strip so I put a beefed hydro in my '32 3 window in 1964. The hydro made it posible to race again. I still have my original hydo from 45 years ago, and it doesn't meet the rules? Also, in 1964, I crewed on an early 92" WB junior fueler with a cast iron Powerglide. This was, definately, a HAMB car in spirit. We never won anything, but that's not what it was built for. It barely passed tech, but we ran. It was just for fun, and we had a fun time. And a cast iron Powerglide doesn't meet your rules? According to the rules, you can run any stick trany you want, no year limitations, just as long as its a standard. Where's the Bug spirit in that? There is a rule about pre 62 6's, which is understandible. But you can't use an automatic that was used on the 6, but you can use any late model standard trany you want? There are exceptions to the "no exotic overhead heads" rule, but there are none for the "no automatics" rule. In 1954, a year before the Bug was built, Hot Rod magazine did a large, indepth, story on the Hydro and how to beef it. Racers were using the Hydro before the Bug was built, but an automatic doesn't meet the Bugs spirit? I could understand ANY trany, 62 and earlier, nothing later. Now that's the spirit! But, I really have no problem with any year standard trany. I will stick with only 62 and earlier automatics, because that is, truely, the spirit. As I'm typing this post, but a few feet away is a 52 Lincoln with a hydro, and a 47 Cad with a hydro, ready to put into something. HAMB is my first choice, NHRA brackets is a second. But, then again, if the no automatics rule is to keep the disabled out of HAMB, I apologize for this post. My intention is not to barge in where I am not wanted, but to allow HAMB to be available to everyone. Again, if the Bug has the desired spirit (whatever that is) that the rules are based on, and those rules are written in stone, I apologize for being so presumptious as to post this thread. I could see the incongruities in the rules, and HAMB cars I have inspected, so I thought I might suggest a possible change. If that is out of the question, I didn't realize it, and I apologize.
    Dirts32
     
  17. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,377

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group


    I get to enjoy the Bug repro regularly, kind of cool.

    Slushpumps are encouraged, and well represented, in HA/GR style cars in the SDRA.

    There are oft stated reasons for HA/GR's stick preferrence, they're not related to period of production. One simply put; Can you miss a shift with a slush? We can with our sticks.

    You don't want to hear my response to your attempted guilt trip.
     
  18. sloppyjoe
    Joined: Jun 21, 2008
    Posts: 17

    sloppyjoe
    Member

    Does the pre-62 rule apply to the trans and the rear as well? I have access to a Comet rear and 3-speed is the only reason for me asking
     
  19. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,377

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    No sir, it doesn't. :D

    The whole concept of the class is equipment that hasn't changed much mechanically since 1950. Inline and flathead engines were only mildly improved 'til '62 with few exceptions, and a few went basically the same on into the '70s. For instance an '80 engine originally engineered in '60 on basically '50s designs and still made the same in '80 is good.

    As for rears and gearboxes, there're no basic differences in'em right up to today. Still pinion, ring & spiders and still gears, forks and levers. One could supposedly argue synchros but we don't quibble that. There's also that they still look pretty much the same for many models.
    The 8" Comet rear also has the advantage of a good selection of gearings available.

    Carbs however, had a different time line of changes, and as they're a more visual item many builders prefer something more period common. Again though, some unique things were around in the early '50s and changed little through the years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  20. sloppyjoe
    Joined: Jun 21, 2008
    Posts: 17

    sloppyjoe
    Member

    So.... I could run a early slant six...since they came out in 60, but if the date code on the block is 68 nobody is going to bitch? Sorry for being a re-nob....but I'm stoked about this, and want to get it right the first time.
     
  21. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 3,873

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    From my point it wouldn't be any more of a problem than running a Mopar flathead 6 with a '68 date code, and yes they did build the the 230 inch flathead at least that late for use in the military Dodge M37B1 series of trucks and even though the 218 inch engine began in '34, it will swap many parts with the '68.

    As long as the basic design began before '62 as long as the fundamentals of the design match I don't see a problem and doubt anyone else will. If an engine began with a four main bearing crank and the later version has a seven main crank that would be a problem and similarly if the later version had major improvements in the head porting that would be a problem too. Just my feelings on the debate and I'm sure others will chime in.

    Build within the concept and have fun.:D
     
  22. pants fit
    Joined: Sep 8, 2008
    Posts: 24

    pants fit
    Member

    My rail job looks alot like the bug but it has a 2.3 overhead cam ford motor,banjo rear model A front with 1/4 eliptics and it has a hand fabbed zoomie that looks correct as well. The motor makes about 125 hp and sounds great! I know chev made the iron duke 4 cyl, but its a push rod motor. will this qualify thanks Jim
     
  23. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,377

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Howdy,

    Sounds like a great car, how 'bout some pictures? :D

    As to the engine, I'm not that up on Fords so .... did they have a cammer in the early fifties and if so, is this engine conceptually related to it?
     
  24. pants fit
    Joined: Sep 8, 2008
    Posts: 24

    pants fit
    Member

    soon as I figure out how to get the film out of my digital camera I will upload or download a pic Thanks Jim
     
  25. pants fit
    Joined: Sep 8, 2008
    Posts: 24

    pants fit
    Member

    go to a harley dealer, get a hand operated hydro clutch master cyl. then go to speedway motors get a hydrolic throw-out bearing stop by a hose shop have a line made to mate this combo modify your shifter to mount the hand clutch and Bam go race and have fun !!! You're welcome Pants
     
  26. RAY With
    Joined: Mar 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,132

    RAY With
    Member

    Having recently purchased a 1950 flatty digger I was wondering where all the information was and found this site. The dragster I have represents the 50's and is all original as built back then. It seems A lot of modifications will have to be made to fit rules that are 2009 style. As I remember it they ran in the 13-14 second area I believe so why the hard core NHRA rules? Some are fine while others restrict or prevent the real older cars from running unless you want to rebuild to current standards. Just my thoughts.
     
  27. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,377

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Lawyers mostly.

    The safety issues are real of course and our society no longer feels you should have the right to take any chances with your own body, because it makes them squeamish.
    Lawyers and con men (politicians) use that squeamishness to further their careers by pandering to the complete ignorance of freedom that the "masses" indulge.

    NHRA's a business, period.
    Pandering to their bottom line via the main stream public's ignorance is what they do. Their product is what that public believes drag racing should be, not one iota of what it actually was or is.
    Even their "nostalgia" racing venues have nothing to do with actual historic racing. It's nothing more than a TV show of tire smoke and noise from their point of usage.

    Oops, vented. :eek:

    Your car sounds like a great find. How 'bout some pictures? :cool:
     
  28. RAY With
    Joined: Mar 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,132

    RAY With
    Member

    I have posted some of these on the regular site but not here. As stated earlier I got this from Garlits Museum and am in the process of having a new flatty built and making sure all correct pieces are time correct and this is a true 1950 vintage. I had to shorten the steering for me to fit good but that's about all I want to do other than a total disassemble and inspect every thing and then put it all together again. I also will have to do the battery and starter for rule and ease of operation but we had them like that in the 50's.
     

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  29. Rand Man
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 3,366

    Rand Man
    Member

    Please keep posting here RAY With. That 1950 dragster is what HA/GR is about. We are trying to re-live the early days of drag racing, and your little rail could motivate some of our re-creations to be built or finished.
     
  30. RAY With
    Joined: Mar 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,132

    RAY With
    Member


    I will and I just never knew this forum existed. I was in hopes of running the HAMB event but motor wont be finished in time and I want it right. I started racing in 52 and this digger was built 2 years before that so it is actual representative of those times. Steering was frozen up so I had to rebuild it with all new bearings then shorten it for me to drive it but it is the same appearing. I ran Nostalgia in the 90's in gas/sedan class so I know what to expect however the flatty is a new experience since its been so long since I ran one on the track. I also plan on making the Temple/Academy event when finished
     

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