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HA/GR in Minnesota

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by bobw, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. I have an Odyssey PC680T in my non Hamb racer. Works great. Last one held out 5 years. Plenty of juice!

    Sealed, nothing to leak out, can mount in any position.

    If you were to use one for a whole day of racing I would start the car from another battery or bring along a charger.
     
  2. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,137

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    The battery is good ballast and it's all over the rear end where you want it.
     
  3. Old Jimmy Six
    Joined: May 24, 2011
    Posts: 41

    Old Jimmy Six
    Member

    Everybody in Tulsa has portable generators and they charge the battery between rounds. Also by doing that you keep the water pump and fan running to cool the engine down. Todd Martin runs one of the small lightweight batteries but they are out of my price range. :(
     
  4. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    I ran one of the red top Optama batterys in my altered and I used the same system that "Old Jimmy Six" talked about and it works fine, cools motor real nice. I am going to run this setup in the SDRA car.

    I don't know about you Bob, but I could loss more weight off the car if I "Pushed Back From The Table" a few minutes early at each meal.:rolleyes: I think it looks great with the holes, but really does little to take weight off the car.
     
  5. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Bob, What new on your car?:confused: Not much talk on the site as of late. My car is still up at by buddy's, he is doing some welding that I can't do while I am getting better from the operation. Also any new work on the truck?
     
  6. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Tom, I've been assembling this. It is the chassis for my (fiberglass) Fiat. Was planning on entering it in an indoor show in April but that ain't gonna happen. Running out of time & money.

    I talked to a designer from a local racing converter company. He is working on one for me. Said he never made a converter for such a low horsepower setup. Kinda made me feel bad.;)

    The short block is assembled, except for the oil pump. Not much work to finish assembly. Gotta splash a little paint here & there and put the whole thing back together. Will be puting a TransGo shift kit in the transmission too. My belts aged out so I'll need a new set. That's about it. Should be ready to race when the strips open around here in the spring.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  7. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Bob, Don't forget that you can send your belts back to who ever made them to get new 2 year tag, runs about $45. Saves a few bucks over new ones. I think you are going to be surprised at what the car will do with all engine/intake/exhaust/carb work you have done. Tightening up the trans and converter will help to.

    You got one fine looking chassis for the Fiat. Looking forward to some pictures with the body. Real nice construction.
     
  8. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    Yes, I know about recerting the belts. Unfortunately, I misplaced the reciept. Another senior memory thing.
    Did manage to put the engine together today. It's bagged and sititng in the corner until I get the transmission done.
    Measured deck height and cc'd a couple combustion chambers. After cutting .100" off the block and .070" off the head and using a .023" steel head gasket, it still only has a 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. Could this be an 87 octane race engine???
     
  9. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Bob, You do not need any receipt to get them re-certified. You only need to contact the manufacture and send the belts to their place. All the belt manufactures are on line.;)

    What cc did the head chambers run? Are the pistons flat top? How far down are the pistons from the deck?

    Hows the truck coming along?

    Got to get a little print going on here, not much talk lately.:D
     
  10. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    The stock flat top replacement pistons sit .078" down the cylinder even after cutting the deck .100". A .070" cut on the head yielded a 53cc combustion chamber. The steel head gasket is .023" thick. Fortunately I have a mild reground cam so it shouldn't bleed off too much cylinder pressure.

    I told the converter guy that the engine should produce around 200 hp. at 4,500-5,000 rpm. Torque around 200-225 ft-lbs. at maybe 3,500-4,000. These are WAG's on my part as I have no experience with slant sixes. Am I in the ballpark?

    A little more engine info: Stock bore & stroke. .465" lift/272 duration cam. Oversize intake & exhaust valves. Mopar 340 springs. Pocket porting only. 2 Carter BBD 2 bbl carbs on home made intake. Home made header.

    The truck is stored in the back garage for the winter. I'll install side glass, door weather stripping and the bed floor in the spring. It will get full tail pipes too.
     
  11. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,488

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Yeah, you should be around that.

    I'm nearly the same in cam lift & valves (but on a long intake lobe), and have gone back to stock valve springs. Using the stock "dumbell" lifters and only some hand lightening on stock rockers, they're working fine and don't float when I forget and pass 6000. I figure it'll help the lobes live a bit.

    Be very careful about putting in too much oil pump, it's a single point contact gear set and won't take a lot of back pressure. Those gears are a weak point in a built slant.

    Better to ease up the flow in the system to get more volume than to high pressure the pump. Also, you can check out the "Articles" link on the Slant6.org board for Doc's various contact point oiling improvements.

    One other thing. If you used a Comp Cams cam (or any aftermarket cam, for my money), carefully check the oil pump drive gear to see that it's smooth. Many of'em were made up with it only hobbed, not polished, and will shortly eat both themselves and the oil pump gears. A careful hand polishing can save the day.
    If you used a re-cut stocker, you're most likely good already.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  12. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    I got the seat back from the upholsterer today. Jenny, the "Stitch Bitch", from the main HAMB board did it using Carhart fabric. It looks really good to me.
    Dick, I have an oil pump that incorporates Doc's (Slant Six.Org) modifications. And, I'm hoping that regrinding my original cam will imporve the chances of distributor and oil pump gear life.
     
  13. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,488

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Those are both good moves. Have you done any block and/or crank passage work yet?

    And now .......

    I think I'd be afraid of falling asleep waiting out an oil down in that comfortable looking a chair. :cool:
     
  14. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Nice seat Bob, looks like a little more padding than the original, better for our mature bones. ;) I used her seats in the 29 RPU, she does real nice work. Now get it mounted so we can see what it looks like in the car. Hope you have a mild spring so your racing can start early, or at least some T&T.
     
  15. Hi Janell sorry I can't see the pics and more info on the car
     
  16. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    Jeff & Joe, I believe that Janell6754 lifted a statement I made about my HA/GR quite a while ago and reposted it above. That''s the second time this has happened recently.???
     
  17. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Ya Bob, that's the problem with you smooth writers, it still sounds good the second time around. ;)

    Most on this site have to work at what I am trying to put into words, that's why I like pictures so much.:D
     
  18. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,488

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    I'm starting to think in terms of a "bot" here.
     
  19. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    Help!
    It's time to buy a converter (sorry Old6). I'm finding the experts are spec'ing an 8" or 9" unit that pushes a thou for cost.

    Here's the question: How much e.t. improvement is likely compared to a stock converter using a:

    1. Economy converter in the 1,600rpm stall range.

    2. A serious small diameter converter with a 3,500-4,000rpm stall.

    Keep in mind I have around 200HP.

    I'm working a cost/benefit analysis here but am stymied. Please help.
     
  20. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Bob, just my 2 cents worth. You should be able to pickup a 10" or 11" converter with 3500 stall from Jegs or Summit for $400-500. That higher stall should help your 60' time and your overall ET. All my experience has been with BBC & PG and I can't see why you would use a 8" or 9" converter with a 200 HP motor.

    But what do I know about HAMBster setups.:rolleyes:
     
  21. Joe Hamby
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 405

    Joe Hamby
    Member

    I think that you need to call the converter maker with all of your engine specks, even your cam card. That is what I had to do when a 3500 stall tci would not work. Then with all of the information, that I told them, they said that I needed a 4500 stall. The 3500 would only kill the engine when put in gear, not loose enough for that cam and compression. It only wants to idle at about 2200 rpm. so I thought that a 3500 would work, I was wrong. Talk to the makers. Joe
     
  22. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Bob, not trying to jump on your tread, but I would like to ask Joe a Question.

    What size Cam and CR are you running? 2200 RPM at idel seams like a lot?
     
  23. Joe Hamby
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 405

    Joe Hamby
    Member

    HI Old 28, with my memory I don't remember the cam specs. But 233 cubic in. 6000 rpm on the engine dyno, 315.9 HP and 305 lbs tork at 4800 rpm. The converter was from TCI. With the 3500 rpm stall converter, when i put it in gear, even after a good warm up, it would just die. I will need to look up that cam, its in a shop miles from here. Joe
     
  24. Old28
    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
    Posts: 1,390

    Old28
    Member

    Thanks Bob & Joe. That is some serious HP from 233 inches.
     
  25. Agreed!
     
  26. CrkInsp
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 513

    CrkInsp
    Member
    from B.A. OK

    Something to remember about torque converters. They are all advertised based on V8 power. They don't build many units for 6cyl. any more. The last Mfg. I talked to had to be reminded a couple of times we were talking about something besides a SBC.
    Once he got that figured out, it was why are you working on one of those. Then he had to ask some one else how to figure what would work for me. Just for fun I ask how old he was. He was only 22 and had never worked on or owned anything but a SBC. Go figure.
     
  27. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,488

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    :D No sweat Bob, not everyboby likes my choices in music either. :rolleyes:

    I have a recommendation on your torque converter. I know little about'em, but I know who to ask.
    Try the guys (especially "Doc" Dutra) over on the /6.org board. They're into modern work on slants, and have extensive knowlege of slush pumps for racing'em, including the best shops for it. They can also be quite helpful on cost saving things as well, it's kind of a thing with slanters. Let'em know that up front.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  28. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    I've reviewed my set up with two top notch converter builders. The conclusion is I don't have enough power to stall a large converter. Parts for the small converters are quite expensive. I just don't know if I'll get enough performance improvement spending a grand to go from a stock converter to a high zoot 'spensive one.
    Trying to estimate the e.t. improvement. If I go from a 12.50 to a 12.30, it ain't hardly worth a grand to do that. Especially because I mainly just play around at Test and Tune.

    If I had a 300+ HP engine like Joe's, then I'm sure it would be worth it.

    Dick, I posted the drivel above before I saw your post. I have searched the slant 6 site thoroughly and got good info. That is what led me to Frank Lupo. Oddly, I got a new password from the site a few months ago and it doesn't work. So I havent been able to converse with all those (fellow) tightwads.

    I just spent an hour on the phone with a drag racing friend in Atlanta. He punched a bunch of parameters in to a drag racing program and I think I am close to knowing what to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  29. hoffbug
    Joined: May 6, 2008
    Posts: 48

    hoffbug
    Member

  30. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,366

    bobw
    Member

    The computer analysis was very revealing. Obviously, it isn't real racing but hopefully will point me in a good direction. It looks like with my meager horsepower, a real loose converter is not beneficial.
    Hofbug, thanks for the lead. I now believe, after spending more time on the Slant 6 site that Midwest Converter in Minneapolis can make a moderately priced converter that will meet my needs. I have used 3 or 4 of their converters in drag cars and hot rods.
    CrkInsp, yes, it is the low horsepower of the slant 6 that causes headaches for the converter desigenrs. I believe the main man at Midwest has a clear understanding of how to get the stall I want. He isn't able to suggest the stall that will give me the best performance on the drag strip.
     

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