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HA/GR in Minnesota

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by bobw, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Here's the tilt trailer I built for my Crosley drag car. It works very well. However, I built it to fit the Crosley with little room to spare. As you can see, the dragster has to go on backwards and there is only an inch of clearance on each side. Try getting that lined up alone!
    The new trailer will permit me to drive straight on and off easily. My ramps are made from GripStrut and are 8 feet long, but still quite light weight. Since I tend to do everything alone, hence the Lone Ranger Racing Team name, having loading and unloading as simple and easy as possible will make racing more fun.

    BTW, in the 70's I traveled to Hong Kong on business many times. The two most fun places for this American boy to go were the Kiwi Bar and the Aussie Bar, even though I didn't drink. All good people and good times in both places.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
  2. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Cool looking trailer Bob!

    Do you still use this trailer? why do you want to make "teardrop fenders"?
    Can I make a suggestion here?

    Make some custom fender backs, and mount a set of rear fenders a-la '40 Plymouth truck.
    It would look nice and vintagy [ '40 Plymouth truck with a vintage appearing trailer ,and a HA/GR race car......."a real class act" ]

    Single axle trailers always tow nicer than tandems, If you build a tandem keep the wheelbase short [ 29-1/2" to 33"] and the Drawbar "Tongue" long [ 150" from the center of the towball to the center of the wheelbase ]
    In NZ the cost of high load index tires is prohibitive, it is cheaper to build a tandem and use car radials,instead of buying high load index tyres [2750lbs each]
    You should always build a Tandem using "rocker equalizer suspension" [especially with a tilt trailers ] ,
    Always put the brakes on the rear axle with "rocker equalizer suspension" [both is better]
    In NZ our maximum weight for towing is 2500kg [5500lbs] on a car license,most radials are rated at 635kg's [1397lbs] for 70 profile.
    I always load the car so it is just balanced on the tilt ,then hook up the rear chains then winch it forward 3" [ the rear chains should be tight ] then tie down the front.
    I always use fixed length chains on the rear, and rachet tie-downs at the front
    A load has more probability of overshooting the front [under emergency braking ] ,than falling off the rear [unless you can accelerate at more than 1G]
    Our towing laws are pretty slack under 2000kg's [4400lbs] so there is an advantage to building a lightweight trailer in NZ [brakes optional, 1 safety chain etc] thats also why I don't like tire racks on trailers [ + theft problems ]
    Here's a few pics of a trailer that I built in 2003,
    It had no chassis rails, but folded 1/8 sheet steel runners and drawbar tongue instead [ it had 4 x crossmembers of 3 x 2 x 1/8" ]
    The deck was only 12ft long [ the length of available 1/8" sheet steel size ] It had tilt deck, winch , surge brakes and towed like a dream
    Total weight was only 400kg [ 880lbs ] I've never seen an alloy trailer that light.I could load a 1600kg [3520lb] car on it,and tip the scales at 2000kg's .
    It was very strong which proves the shape of steel is more important than the thickness of steel.
    The red diamond plate trailer in the previous post only weighed 650kg [ 1430lb ]

    I'm starting to "rant on" like a woman obsessed with weight [ it must also be the racer thing ]
     

    Attached Files:

  3. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Took the trailer for a test pull today. Tomorrow it goes to Jerry the Sandblaster for a little more cleanup and a coat of epoxy primer.
     
  4. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    The 8 foot long ramps are made from gripstrut decking that I reinforced. They store up the middle of the trailer in some formed angle iron slides. I have plywood decking 1-1/4" thick that is stained and varnished. It'll get different tires and wheels.
     
  5. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,130

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Nicely done Bob. Looks good!
     
  6. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    And now a little off topic discussion:
    Last week I had my first and very much belated colonoscopy. As luck would have it a large polyp was discovered. It contained some undesireable cells. Today further probing took place. Boy, am I sore in a particular place. Still more evaluation is needed. However, it looks like it was caught early enough to be taken care of without an artifical pooping mechanism.

    I am revealing this to all you middle aged and older guys to encourage you (I'd demand it if I could) to get the test on a schedule recommended by your doctor. The test is a piece of cake and the prep wasn't nearly as bad as I had been led to believe.
     
  7. 348chevy
    Joined: Apr 2, 2007
    Posts: 431

    348chevy
    Member

    Harbor Frieght sells a small camera probe that you can look in cylinders. I don't know why you couldn't have a do it yourself colon inspection.:p Roy
     
  8. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,482

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    I had one a few years back where my doc asked if I minded some students watching the procedure. I'm not bashful so I said OK.

    So there I am garbed in paper and lying on my side when in troops a gaggle of college girls to watch.

    I can think of far better circumstances to be the center of attention of a bunch of young chicks. :rolleyes:
     
  9. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Got the trailer back from Jerry the Sandblaster. He put a coat of epoxy pirmer on it. I painted it with Rustoleum Hammered Finish Silver. The file cabinet paint. The deck is 3/4" and 1/2" plywood layered, oil primed and painted on the bottom, stained and urethane coated on the top. Lots of carriage bolts.
     
  10. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    It is sized so the dragster just fits. The objective is to keep the total weight of dragster and trailer under 3,000 lbs. Much easier to license, and pull with my S-10 and later, the '40 Plymouth pickup. I wanted to use vintage lights but decided to use DOT approved trailer lights all around to keep the Law happy.
     
  11. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Good looking trailer Bob.
    It looks real user friendly for future racing adventures
    10/10
     
  12. butch nassau
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 205

    butch nassau
    Member

    I just now read Old 6 Rodder's story of a group of high school girls showing up at his colonoscopy.

    Maybe I'm getting paranoid...people are watching me you know.

    But, exactly the same thing happened to me.

    I think the NHRA (No Hemorrhoid Re-inspections Allowed ) should look into this blatant atempt by high school girisls to use the ruse of future medical study to catch glimpses of older men's .....
     
  13. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,482

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    OK Butch, stop posting stuff like that for me to read while I'm shelling peanuts, my keyboard's now full of shells and skins.

    ps. Bob, that thing's flat out beautiful. Keep the faith, Wood is Good. :cool:
     
  14. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    WOW, that's a bitch'n trailer Bob! Nice job, Rocky
     
  15. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    A few weeks ago I mention the colonscopy deal. Well, I had some additional tests which included cuting a large chunk out of my colon wall.
    Just got the results back and I'm ok.

    Living to race another day!
     
  16. REJ
    Joined: Mar 4, 2004
    Posts: 1,612

    REJ
    Member
    from FLA

    Congrats on passing that test Bob.
     
  17. butch nassau
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 205

    butch nassau
    Member

    That's good news Bob.

    The trouble with getting older is that you get to meet a nice group of very talented medical people that you really didn't want to meet.

    Try to stay away from those folks.
     
  18. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Yep, Butch, when you get old it's like walking down a hallway in a house of horrors. All the different diseases are reaching out to grab you and pull you in.
    Anyway, bullet dodged.:)
    Target has scales on sale for $8.00 a piece so I bought four. I weighed my trailer and dragster to be sure when I apply for plates I get the right weight category.
    The trailer weighs 900lbs.
    The dragster is a heavyweight at 1544lbs. 637lbs. front, 907lbs, rear. That's 59%/41%. More weight on the rear with my 175lbs. (in firesuit/helmet,etc.) in it.

    The whole works is way under 3,000lbs which keeps my trailer requirements at a minumum.

    You guys with the dragstrip calculators; how many ponies do I need to hit 12 flat???
    (Do not include the trailer weight in the formula):D
     
  19. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,130

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Here are a few calculator sites:

    http://www.hotrodpitstop.com/tools.html

    http://www.dragtimes.com/drag-racing-calculators-tools.php

    http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/calculators.html

    http://www.nationaldrivetrain.com/calcs/dragcalc.html

    Run your numbers and let us know how accurate the calculations are.:D
     
  20. butch nassau
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 205

    butch nassau
    Member

    Bobw,

    Looks great. One small thing. You should have blocks of wood under the unweighed wheels so they set the same height as the wheels you have on the scales

    I applaud your use of inexpensive scales.

    Some thirty eight years ago a friend of mine ran a sprint car in the Midwest ( Knoxville, Burlington, Quad cities). It was small block Chevy on alcohol. I crewed for him.

    We could not afford high priced scales so we rigged up the foot part of a trailer jack and put a 3:1 rocker arm on it with a provision for a torque wrench to be inserted into a 1 /2 square hole in one end of the rocker.

    We left for the track and proceeded to measure the weight on the right front tire...two other crew members watched us.

    On the left front tire there were twenty crew members watching us.

    By the time we got to the rear tires, the entire pit crews, drivers, technical inspectors and passersby had surrounded the car.

    Everyone immediately recognized how it worked.

    Within two weeks, half the teams had improved on our design and soon everybody had a home-made "weight checker".

    They sell them now in all the roundy-round magazines.

    Does anyone know of a lever style weight checker that predates this?

    The place was Burlington, Iowa Speedway.

    The time was July 1972.

    The car was number 3.

    The Driver was Rick McDole.

    The pit crew was me, Butch Nassau and Rick's wife Linda.
     
  21. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    Butch, I did raise the unweighed wheels to match the wheels on the scales. Cool story about your invention.

    Looks like the soonest I can run the dragster is Oct. 2, if it isn't snowing.

    Thanks for the calculators 64 DODGE 440.
     
  22. ScottV
    Joined: Jul 18, 2009
    Posts: 819

    ScottV
    Member

    I think you can get L-78/15s in a snow tire ... :p
     
  23. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    199 HP [ in the real world you would need more to compensate for slow 60ft times ]

    The formula is [Total weight x 200] divided by [ ET cubed ]
    This is the old Chrysler Direct Connection Formula

    1544lbs + 175lbs [driver] = 1719lbs x 200 = 343800
    343800 / ET x ET x ET or [ 343800 / 1728 = 198.95 HP ]

    I would calculate approx 1/2 sec loss with 6 inch tires , so its

    343800 / 11.5 x 11.5 x 11.5 [ 343800 / 1520.875 = 226 HP]

    226 HP would be more realistic [ the magic 1 HP per Cubic inch ]
     
  24. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    Kerry, Thanks for running the numbers. I agree with your assumption on the tires.

    Looks like I'll have to find a place to hide the nitrous bottle.:D
     
  25. REJ
    Joined: Mar 4, 2004
    Posts: 1,612

    REJ
    Member
    from FLA

    That's easy bob. Just put it in the frame like Dave Shultz did in pro stock motorcycles years ago.
    He had a little tube hanging in front of the carbs (looked like a battery vent) and when he needed an extra push, mash the button and it "fogged" the carbs with nitrous.
    Took them about four years to figure it out.
    Robert
     
  26. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Bob, I find the maths more accurate than computer programs or charts [ lucky for me truancy wasn't too much of a problem ]

    Horspower to weight should be used to calculate terminal speed over a given distance.

    226 HP in a 1719 lb "rocketship" over 1320 ft should net about 114 mph [ no more ]

    Accelaration is about torque multiplication [ in fact it really is HP multiplied by gearing for a simple explanation, but the torque numbers are only needed for calculations ]

    So you should "gear your car" to "peg out" at 113-114mph and no more
    If your engine is at 6000 rpm thru the traps you would need 4.55 gears with a 29" tire.[ not allowing for torque converter slippage ]

    The idea is to have as much mechanical advantage as possible [in the gear reduction / torque multiplication equation ]
    "Remember the old M/P cars! 283 Camaros with 6.50 gears and 10,000 RPM"

    226 HP from an old sloper should be easily achieveable
    A 1960 - 1970 225 slant six is rated at 145HP @ 4000 and 215 FT/LBs @2400

    When you look at the torque curve of an engine, the maximum torque is the highest RPM acheived before the cylinder pressure drops off .
    BMEP is a calculation to measure an engines theoretical efficiency or it's "ability to pump air." [ at any given RPM ]
    The equation is TQ x 150.8 / Cu In = BMEP [ In stock form the 225 engine has a lowly BMEP of 144lbs ]

    If you're going thru the traps @ 6000 RPM, ideally the maximum HP should be about 5500 RPM
    HP = TQ x RPM / 5252 so lets do the maths [ in reverse ]
    226 HP x 5252 / 5500 RPM = 215 FT/LB's which is exactly the same as the stock torque rating [ but at a higher RPM ]
    So the BMEP is exactly the same at 5500 RPM as it was at the previous 2800 RPM.
    If you want to increase HP without increasing RPM it is neccessary to raise the BMEP.

    Two examples here of "gigabuck" engines made from "unobtanium"

    A 183 Cu In F1 engine has a BMEP of 190LB's [ 190LB's x 183Cu In / 150.8 = 230.57 FT/LB's ]
    [ 230.57 FT/LB's x 19000 RPM / 5252 = 834 HP ]

    A 750 HP @ 8800 RPM 355 Cu In Nascar engine [ 750 HP x 5252 / 8800 RPM = 447.61 FT/LB's ]
    [ 447.61 FT/LB's x 150.8 / 355 Cu In = 190.1 LB's BMEP ]
    So the good ol' USA 4 barrel V8 is just as efficient as a F1 engine.[ in it's own rev range ]

    So to increase your rev's to 5500 and maintain the same BMEP the motor needs to "pull more air" [ actually it needs to "pull the same amount of air" in less time ]

    F**k it, just mount an old truck battery in the back with no guts in it. You can hide the nitrous bottle inside that!
     
  27. hoffbug
    Joined: May 6, 2008
    Posts: 48

    hoffbug
    Member

  28. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    Kerry, You're throwing a lot of numbers at a guy who flunked out of engineering school.:D (Became an engineering manager instead, go figure).:eek: Back in the 60's I helped a friend with his C/Gas Willys. Small engine, fairly heavy car, heavy flywheel and 5.83 gear. Very familiar with that approach.
    I intend to limit max rpm's to around 5,000 for reliability reasons. Generally, I tend to build engines that have a broad torque band rather than a high horsepower, peaky engine. Less tempramental, easier to tune. My biggest hurdle is, I'm afraid to pick up the die grinder and do the porting myself.
    No nitrous for me. It seems like a too easy way to gain ponies. Guess I'm just too old school.
     
  29. 348chevy
    Joined: Apr 2, 2007
    Posts: 431

    348chevy
    Member

    Nitrious is for people who don't know how to build engines. :DRoy
     
  30. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,130

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Either that, or dentists.:D
     

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