What's the history behind Guide headlights? Judging from the name, Guide, they must have been original equiptment on GM products, but what were they original equiptment for and when? If I wanted to try to find some originals in a junk yard what vehicle(s) would I be looking for?
Many others will be able to chime in more than what I know, but I've only seen them on trucks such as REOs, Macks and Diamond Ts.....around the 47-49 vintage...I think..???
I don't think Guide was owned by GM, at least not back then. I think Guide supplied to many truck manufacturers, as well as sold at the local auto parts store. If you find a set with Guide tags on top they are probably aftermarket. If they have no tags and have the "innie" mount on the bottom they are probably off some large truck. And then there's BLC's. . . . Not sure where they came in, but they were made in the exact same shapes and styles as Guides. And probably made about the same era. - alchemy
Anybody ever see an old picture of them used on a hot rod? It's curious because I haven't. I'm into mostly 40's and 50's stuff so I don't look at much else...maybe I missed something where they were more common and popular in the 60's? I like the lights and I'm not knocking them. I've had a few sets pass through my hands. They'll get bolted on my car for a bit but I just end up just trading them away. They are out of place on my car. It's wierd... like they have become a sort of staple for 40's and 50's traditionally styled rods but I don't think they were really used all that much.
The "Guide Lamp Company" was purchased by General Motors way back before WW1. Henry Ford was buying up companies that produced products used in the manufacture of his automobiles to have control of the pricing of his parts (monopoly). He even bought rubber plantations to have some control over the tire manufacturers. General Motors did the same thing to protect themselves from price gouging and have thier own monopoly on parts and supplies and pricing. Delco Electric was another company GM bought also Saginaw Gear. This was common practice back in the days of BIG business monopolies. The Guide Lamp Company even made M3A1's during WW2 (better known as the 45 cal. submachinegun "Grease Gun" (because of it's shape). Their ability to manufacturer sheet metal stampings let them produce the "Grease Guns" for less than $9.00 ea. (Today's collectible price is $15,000.00 to $20,000.00.) Guide Lamps that are popular for hotrods were mostly used on trucks and commercial vehicles but, the ones with ball and socket mounting were popular as replacements to convert cars (like Model A's) to a sealed beam headlight for more lighting power as roads and speed limits got better. (You could "over" drive your headlights.) BLC is a model of the Guide ball and socket mount style lamp assembly. Another independent Company that made lamp assemblies was the "Edmonds & Jones Company" - "E&J". overspray
I think that it's kinda like 3x2s on the street or vintage Hemis or Corvette engines... they're neo-traditional because they look right for the era to the modern eye. They certainly look right to mine!
I looked through lots of old pics and only saw what I thought might be a pair on a roadster that didn't have the marker lights on the top. Another thing I didn't see on any old hot rods is turnsignals. I think the Guide lights are the best compramize to still have a Traditional looking car but also having turn signals. Let's face it, while you may know all the hand signals, do you think the lady from a far-a-way land bearing down on you in the mini van does?
I think they were seldom used--the big ones with signal lamps on top--because they were big and bulky, perfect for trucks and converting Grandma's old heap so she could see on her way home for prayer meeting. Hot rods usually got far smaller units, one of the several kinds that were barely larger than the sealed beam unit they held. The emphases here were cleanness and compactness and also trying to look like a racecar on which headlights really weren't part of the theme. They are a bit like visors, fuzzy dice, and bluedots--traditional parts of early hot rods since the 1990's... GM suppliers like Guide, AC, and Delco had extensive non-GM parts aftermarket lines and also supplied OEM parts for the independents and smaller manufacturers. I've recently turned up a couple of 50's Guide catalogs, and they did make a small sealed-bean light, much like a King Bee design, as well as the big Road Zeppelin jobs with the bump.
My '40 GMC has them on it. (That was the first year sealed beams were required by "law". '41 they changed the Chevy and GMC front ends to the "waterfall grill and put the headlights in the fenders so '40 was the only year for the sealed beam Guides on GM pickups. I think they still had tem on "big" trucks though.) I assume they came on it from the factory. They are the kind without the parking light/turnsignal attached. The '40 truck didn't have turn signals, but had the same "parking lights" that came on '40 Chevy passenger cars. ("Parking lights" were meant to be used the same way we use "emergency flashers" today. That's why, here in CA anyway, it's liiegal to drive with just your "parking lights" on. It's headlights or no lights I guess.) I converted mine to 1157 bulbs when I added turn signals. I just looked thru some little pages from the 50's and the several coffee table books I have on early hotrods and it appears that close to half the hotrods in the books had guide headlight conversions, if they had sealed beams at all. Later, like towards the 60's, King Bee's and Dietz headlights became more prevalent on rods. Those were probably bought "new" rather than taken off a scrapped truck. Like the start of early "bubble pack" street rod accessories maybe?
I have a few sets, and a NOS guide catalog, it refers to the 682-C Guides as "Universal Headlights". I believe that they were OE on GMC and Dodge in the early forties.
They were original equipment on trucks. At one time or another they were used on GMC,Chevy, Reo, Diamond T, Peterbilt, Kenworth, Federal, Mack Divco, CCC, FWD, Oshkosh, Bucyrus-Erie, Euclid, and maybe others. They were also available in parts stores as replacements.
Early on they were used alot. Today they look kinda big compared to the king bees and deitz lights that came out of the 50's & 60's but before those the guides were the quick way to replace those monster size lights that came on the As and Deuces and other 30's cars with sealed beams. Tex Smith's roadster is probably the first semi modern car to use them again after the king bee era.
GM's guide headlamp division also made THIS... It was classified as a "flare projector" to keep Guide from being fully sure of what they were making... It was air-dropped by the thousands to resistance troops during WWII... It came with a wordless comic strip instruction sheet and a few rounds that stored in the handle... It is not marked in any way, to prevent the Axis from knowing where they came from.... This "throw-away" gun was designed for a point-blank shot... Then, you ditched it and took the weapon from the German you just killed..... It is one shot, unrifled, had to be unloaded by pushing a stick down the barrel to pop the shell out (no extractor)... It's made almost entirely of stampings.. There were reports of this weapon being used long after the war by guerrilla forces, such as in Viet Nam.... A little semi-OT history for ya....
Ah yes, the OSS "Liberator." I believe the Vietnam version was called the "deer gun" and was 9mm instead of .45 ACP. The Liberator and M3 Grease Gun were the best known products of the GM Guide Lamp division during WWII. Wasn't E&J a parts supplier for Ford during the Model T era?
The "deer gun" was something slightly different, but equally as shitty in construction.... It had a more contoured handle and a VERY short barrel... Still one shot, I believe.... I'm pretty sure the guerrillas got WWII surplus weapons (liberators), possibly through the French during the Viet-Minh/Indochina war, and kept them in service because they were desperate for weapons for the VietCong.... A liberator is better (slightly) than a sickle or a sharpend bamboo pungee stick.... I could very well be wrong, but I thought E&J was always an Independant company that made aftermarket lights for high-dollar cars.... Don't bet on that, though.... By the way, here's the "Deer Gun"... Not sure if Guide made it... They probably did...
It's wierd... like they have become a sort of staple for 40's and 50's traditionally styled rods but I don't think they were really used all that much.[/QUOTE] When I bought my '29 coupe that had been rodded (by the seller) in the early 50's it had a pair of the 682's mounted on the lowered headlight bar. I mentioned to the seller that i thought they looked a bit out of place, and he told me they did it that way to have enough light for night racing back in the day (because of the sealed beams). BTW, my original '38/39 Chevy COE truck also has the 682 Guides, but they still have the small light bulb and reflector rather than the sealed beams. ------- And speaking of weird manufacturing product lines during war time... while wandering through a forest near Metz, France back in the 70's I found the rusty remains of an American 30 calibre M-1 Carbine (which i still have) and it is stamped Rockola on the upper receiver --- Rockola made Jukeboxes, I do believe.
Look at the old car magazines "little books". Some of the cars are running Guide Lamps. The reason you don't see a overwhelming amount is the same today. They were cheap and readily available, so the "high dollar " "goldchainer" cars of the day went with the (billet of the day) new chrome aftermarket hotrod stuff. The guys with money built the high dollar cars that made the magazine covers. I've seen several with chromed Guides in the old mags, and some of the Guides with just the little glass "button lite" on the top. I have a friend with an extensive collection of "little books". It's a treat to look through them for reference on what was done back in "the day". I grew up where there weren't many local rods. Magazines, with all thier pictures and advertising was the easiest way to keep up with the car scene. JC Whitney, Honest Charlie's Speed Shop, Almquist engineering, Ansen's power and speed equipment, Newhouse automotive, were some of the "speed goodie" wish books we would spend our money on and dream of all the neat things we could buy--when we finally got our first car. I just quickly flipped thru 3 little books I had on the desk. Most of the cars were late model customs (50's cars) in the 3 I grabbed. There were about 4 older cars, T's thru mid 30's rods and drag cars--and 1 roadster had Guide lamps on. And.... yes Southfork, the ROCKOLA Music Company was one of many companies that made rifles, pistols or other weapons during the war. Saginaw gear, International Harvestor, National Postal meter, Singer Sewing machine, Remington Rand (typewriters) Union Switch and Signal--to name a few. overspray
To get back to Grimlock's question; take a look at Andy Southard's book "Hot Rods of the Fifties". A lot of the shots of local east coast rods have the Guides or BLC's with the turn signal or parking light on top. The photos from a couple of years later, out in California, few if any rods have them. Chrome King Bee's seem to have been more popular there. I figured that it was just one of those regional sort of things.
My '36 REO (Car) has the Guide Headlights. Just came from a Swap Meet in Wichita. A guy was selling these same lights for 450.00. I asked him if he wanted another pair. I gave him my number for somewhere close to that I'd sell mine!!!!!
IBM (yes, the computer guys) also made M-1 Carbines.... So did Saginaw Steering Gear Division.... Rock-Ola is the rarest manufacturer... Figures tell me they made 228,500, which was less than 4% of the total M1 production run.... I'd really like to see a picture of that, if you could PM it to me......
the headlights that were on my 32 which was hot rodder in the 50's have a different tag then most king bees that look like someone removed them to paint and did not have the right rivets to reinstall here is a pic of them if you know any thing about the tag please post thanks
I like them because of the signals on top, but I think the best thing about them is their name - perfect for a company who could help "light the way." Gary
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