Guide 682-c's being sold for high $$$- FAKES???

I see these pop up on the evil auction site all the time and something doesn't seem right. I own several pairs of original Guide headlamps, and non of mine have a tag that looks like the one below. This guy (seller) claims these are NOS, but the tags look fake and so does the rivet placement (not centered). It wouldn't be hard to make up a fake set, using some parts from OTB and Restoration Hardware. People are paying big $$ for these. Has anyone seen tags like this on their old Guide headlamps??

 

Does anyone else see this??

 

bump

 

I saw those ones when I ended up winning a different set and was concerned at just how perfect those ones were.

Is anyone re-popping the tags? I know they wouldn't be that hard to do.

 

Sniff, Sniff - I smell chinesium.

Looks like an aluminum tag. They used brass back then:



B.

 

And yes you can buy new tags, not sure of the seller, but I've seen them in one of the many magazines I get.

 

My origionals have aluminum tags and brass or copper rivets but they don't look anything like the ones above. I'm sure the ones I have are real, (pretty beat to hell), I mean they have patina, but not even close.

 

Looks like someone on here sells them as well

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=655642

 

I've often wondered what the big draw is to these things. Cheap replacement lights, still available in many places, but because they're old they seem to be the next "must have"? I've got a cheapo set of those things that are 6v sealed beams, don't recall the brand, but common "replacement" lights. Anyone care to enlighten us that ain't hip to the need?

 

Also check the word "headlamp". The originals appear to be 2 words, "Head Lamp" and the one this guy is selling it looks like on word.

 

The integrated turn signals are the draw for me.

 

KOZ:

Grab a magnifier and look at your tags. They may be brass under the silver color.

If you look at that picture I posted you will see the remains of a silver coating on the brass. I can't say if it was paint or tin plating because it is almost gone. Perhaps they switched to aluminum later, but I don't know for sure.

It would be good to know if they used both materials. If your tag is brass it will show that color in the bottom of a ding or scratch.

How close to my pic is your tag? Is the font the same? The same space between the words HEAD and LAMP?

That tag in that auction has the wrong font. "Head Lamp" is run together. The black appears to be a silk screen on top of the metal, rather than a fill in. The rivets look small, and misplaced.

B.

 

With 27 bidders and the price at $885, I'd say that's pretty good motivation for a counterfeiter.

If they can counterfeit handbags and sweatshirts, why not headlamps (or head lamps)?

 

Is it possible that the "genuines" I bought could be fakes then? The word headlamp runs together, the black doesn't seem filled and the model designation stamp isn't consistent among both of them.

 

X2 there is much better looking lights
out there for less money in my opinion

 

Hard to say for sure. That is why I am asking people.

Your tags appear to be brass. They are different, but that may have been a change as tooling was replaced. Look at the "I" in the OP's tag. small differences.

I hate to see fakes sold as NOS. The only way to get to the bottom of something like this is building a database of known good parts to compare to. Your pics help.

What does the rest of the lamp look like? Correct wiring? Plug look right?

As someone said, when the price goes high enough they will fake anything.

B.

 

Yeah everything else seems period correct, but they could have been faked in the past - but very, very doubtful unless someone just put old tags on a similar housing.

I feel they seemed legit enough to buy and I didn't pay an unrealistic amount for them so I am using them regardless.

 

Probably are genuine. Now we know that they used a wider font at some point, and ran the words together. Probably newer than the tag I posted. Your black paint appears to be below the surface of the lettering too.

Thanks for posting the pics.

B.

 

Who pays 9 bills for a pair of guide headlights, original or not??? Stupid...

 

I'm no head light expert but I got on a head light buying kick one time and was buying all the Guides of various models I could find on Ebay and ended up with 15 sets. Over time we have used them on several car projects and I only have a couple of sets left for future cars. BUT, by having all those sets in front of me I was able to see that not every one had identical tags, and my lights were definitely originals because they were in not pristine condition when I got them.

What I found is that some tags are the brass looking ones and some are aluminum looking. The writing and style of script varied too, some letters were more block like than others. Even lights that came to me as a pair would have one tag one way and another tag another way, and yet they were a set based on color and condition.

So it looks like Guide used a variety of tags over the years and randomly attached them to lights. Here is a set I had on my 23 and I had to pair up two lights from different sets to get two tags that were the same.

Don

 

Most the of stockers were prettier than the Guides in my opinion. Have a look at '35 Ford headlights. I don't get the draw either.

 

The same could be said for intakes, heads, etc, etc. I just wish I had a box full of them to sell.

 

Truth. If I had a stockpile of them I would be very happy with the market right now.

 

Well that makes a little more sense to me for some reason. Headlights are just tin buckets... Don't take me wrong, I dig on some cool old guides, but 9 bills?? come on!

 

Amen to that, brother. A $50 pair of Chinese "Dietz" get me down the road at night just fine.

Bob

 

And to a "normal" person a 32 3 window shell is just a rusty pile of shit. It's all relative.

 

Reminds of the guy on Ebay who was selling Offy Gas Pedals as NOS out of his late fathers collection of vintage parts..... It was a good story up until he sold 4 of them.... People were paying $200 for a gas pedal you could buy from Speedway for $65.00

 

Not to say that they couldn't be repops, but I'd imagine that Guide lamps were pretty much like everything else in that once the initial supply of I.D. tags were used up, the word went out to several different potential suppliers of them, and whoever turned in the lowest bid to make them got the job. I'm sure that whether or not they were EXACTLY like the last 50,000 tags they used was the last thing they worried about. People concerned with stock restorations go through this all the time; I know a guy who reproduces small parts for '55-'57 Chevies, and he told me that he figures there were at least three different vendors for the convertible top motor switch knobs in '56, all having minor differences.

 

"Hi Les- thanks for the interest in my auction. I appreciate the offer, but I prefer to let my auctions run the course (I don't use the buy-it-now). The last two NOS pairs I listed went for over $1,200 and $1,500 respectively (the last of which was about a year ago), so I don't know what to expect this time around. Regards, Chris."

Fuck me !

I have several sets, and always figured the resale price would be hurt by the repops, guess not.

Rich

 

BTW, I'm pretty sure the seller is a HAMBer.

Rich