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Technical Grand National Rear end.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Sttevil, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Sttevil
    Joined: Mar 11, 2016
    Posts: 9

    Sttevil

    Anybody have any pics of a grand national rear end in their ride?

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  2. Gregg Pellicer
    Joined: Aug 20, 2004
    Posts: 1,347

    Gregg Pellicer
    Member

    What do you call a grand national rear end? To me it is what is in a NASCAR stock car. If that's what you're talking about it looks basically like a 9" ford rear end. Probably the most common rear end there is in a hot rod. Finding pic's should not be a problem
     
  3. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,632

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's just a 10 bolt rear end with a 8.5 inch ring gear and the "bigger" pinion shaft. Came in the Buick Grand National turbo V-6 cars, Olds 442, and some Monte's. Probably bring a good price for someone wanting to update their G Body car.
    I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  4. primed34
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 1,127

    primed34
    Member

    Think he's asking about the big quickchange rear ends.
     

  5. Sttevil
    Joined: Mar 11, 2016
    Posts: 9

    Sttevil

    It originally came in a Buick GN but now they are made in 9in. They are full floating axles and use taper bearings and hubs. Because of the hubs they should be great for huge tire t buckets just seeing if anyone has put one in.

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  6. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,876

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Put one in my 47 Chevy. I left the stock trailing arms on it, and made brackets off the frame to support it, and the springs. Mainly did this so I could run bags and get more lift from them. Easy to do, but the upper mount/spring support crossmember takes up a lot of trunk space. I boxed and internally beefed up the arms, as well. The only thing I probably need to do is make up new uppers, so I can set the proper pinion angle when it is at ride height. Chevybuild 014.jpg
     
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  7. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,707

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    I'm still not sure we are getting the whole picture. Actually, we aren't getting any picture. My guess is that he is asking about a Ford 9" with 'Grand National' snouts, hubs and floating axles.
    Definitely bullet proof and definitely not necessary. Doesn't anyone think about unsprung weight?
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  8. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,099

    birdman1
    Member

    grand national stock cars in the 60's and 70's used the 1960's chevy pickup rear suspension. the long arms and the triangle shape , coil springs was the way to go. easy to install and you can't hurt it in a hot rod( never say never)
     
  9. You are asking about a Buick Grand National not a a NASCAR Grand National, right?
     
  10. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    its a standard 28 spline 8.5" c- clip AAM/GM rear for a G body ( just like the 8.5 from the earlier years ) , nothing special about it same size pinion and ring gear as a 8.5 semi float axle ( bearing in axle end has NO exterior hubs like a full float ) , other than the fancy back cover ( GNX) and the others had a plain steel cover , a standard G body rear of that era was the 7.5 ring gear and they used them behind low HP v-8s ( including the MC SS's which finally went to a special 8" ring in a 7,5 housing in late production ) and in some t type cars . I buy these for $500 as most guys who race go to the Ford 9" as the 8.5 has a 750-800 hp limit when built properly and lots of them (G bodys ) have been hopped up to exceed that ,
    a true GN axle which is named after the Grand National race series ( NASCAR) is a Full float ( hubs on end and axles power the hubs ) are 9" Ford designs and retain the wheel to the housing in case the axle snaps .
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
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  11. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    I don't think he really knows what he is talking about after reading his second post. :) He refers to a floater hub rear as used in pretty much all high end circle track sedans but also mentions that they originally came in Buick GN's which is untrue. Confusing GM's marketing with NASCAR reality. And as GearheadsQCE notes it adds a bunch of unsprung weight for no practical reason, the same as "huge tire t buckets" are not a really good idea. Sttevil needs to read stimpy's post.

    Roo
     
  12. I agree all Buick GN's came with the 8.5 10 bolt with C-clip axles just like a Monte SS. Good rear though, works great in the back of my 51 chevy!
     
  13. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,226

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    This is funny...

    "Grand National" as in the Buick...these were NOT full floating axles, as in similar to truck full floating axles..!
    They were/are just 10 bolt " (c-clip) axle assemblies, nothing special.

    "Grand National" as in Stock Cars...that mostly go around in circles, these are and have been for MANY years, just a modern copy of the Ford 9" assembly hung on modern copy's of the 60's Chevy control arms with full sized coil springs, a Panhard bar and single tube shocks.

    "Grand National"...as in the Winters, big Quick Change (actually called Championship-Heavy Duty). It's just larger version of the more normal sized units. I have one in my 54 Studebaker.

    Now, Stt needs to pick one...

    Mike
     
  14. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,521

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Here is a Winters QC with Grand National floater hubs and drum brakes, they have 5/8 studs and a 5 on 5" bolt circle. IMG_1374.JPG IMG_1377.JPG
     
  15. drptop70ss
    Joined: May 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,167

    drptop70ss
    Member
    from NY

    Hate to break it to you but that is not a GN rear, that is a 7.5 10 bolt, probably from a monte carlo. If you took it out of a GN someone stole the good 8.5 rear before you got there..if you bought it from someone you got scammed.
     
  16. drptop70ss
    Joined: May 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,167

    drptop70ss
    Member
    from NY

    GN and turbo regals came with the 8.5, 85 up monte SS came with the 7.5. Early monte SS had the 8.5 but with highway gears (pre 200r4).
     
  17. Did not know that, I new the GN did have the 8.5 up through 87, at least my 87 had one. I thought all the monte SS had them up though then too. the 8.5 that's in the back of my 51 came out of an 86 SS. Maybe it got swapped in or was an option. Mine has all GM internals in it and it's got a 3:73 gear in it. Guess I got lucky!
     
  18. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,354

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm going to have to go with the theory that in some magazine you read where someone put a 9 inch Ford or 9 inch Ford style rear end in a Buick Grand National.
    That means you are just hunting for a 9 inch Ford or Ford style rear axle with the right width and gear ratio for your T bucket. It doesn't need any of the welded on brackets that it would take to put it under the Grand National.
    Any time you throw out something off the wall you get some of the guys confused as to your actual question and get 99 wrong answers.
     
    stimpy likes this.
  19. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Read his first post again. I don't think that the OP has a clue. He is confusing the fact that GM had a Buick model called a Grand National with the fact that what were originally called Grand National series cars in NASCAR used a floating hub rear end based on a 9" Ford housing. Since then GN has become the defacto term describing a floater style rear end. As already noted by numerous posters the Buick did not have floater hubs so that negates his initial statement.
    On top of all that a "huge tire t bucket" is not exactly prime HAMB material. :)

    Roo
     
  20. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,535

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    @Sttevil hello, is this thing on?
    First, welcome to the HAMB
    Now, I see you just joined, not sure why you posted a question and then kinda dropped the ball on us. Your question probably sounded reasonable (to you), but if you had kept participating in Your Thread, you would have seen how most of us were somewhat confused as to what you actually wanted from us. Purely out of respect it would make sense for you to respond and clear this up so the rest of us can actually be of help to you and move on . People come here for various reasons, some purely for entertainment, others to get tech advise, but most of us are just like minded guys who feel a sense of "community" and are glad to help anyone who seeks advise.
     
  21. Sttevil
    Joined: Mar 11, 2016
    Posts: 9

    Sttevil

    Sorry for the lack of participation.,I just wanted to see if anyone had installed a floating hub rear end like the ones sold by speedway and winters. They call them grand national and are not quick change but are 9in housings set up for the floating hubs and axles. They have no brackets so you can put them in whatever you wish. Thought it would look cool in a bucket, and really, nothing makes much since in a t bucket so why not and the price is right. Hope that clears up my question now any pics of one in a bucket? ;) lol.

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  22. Sttevil
    Joined: Mar 11, 2016
    Posts: 9

    Sttevil

  23. Gregg Pellicer
    Joined: Aug 20, 2004
    Posts: 1,347

    Gregg Pellicer
    Member

    There is no reason for floating hub's in a T bucket or any other street rod /hot rod. It's just overkill. Visually the rear end is the same as a 9"ford axle. I would spend my money elsewhere on the car.
     
  24. footbrake
    Joined: Sep 3, 2009
    Posts: 93

    footbrake
    Member

    totally right
     
  25. footbrake
    Joined: Sep 3, 2009
    Posts: 93

    footbrake
    Member

    I'm pretty sure that only GN and 442's had 8.5'' rears. GN with 3.42 gear and 442 with 3.73 gear. I don't think Monte Carlos has 8.5".
     
  26. dirtracer06
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 198

    dirtracer06
    Member

    Some of 76 montes ,grand prix and some of the olds had the 8.5 in them, 2 different end bearing/ brake opt where used, the large displacement v8s got larger end bearings and 11" rear drums, standard had small end bearings and 9" drums. they were pretty strong rear ends, i ran the large bearing unit in my circle track car for 16 seasons , i only broke 2 axles, right rear after tagging the wall in a heat race(which i won) and a left rear the only night i let my brother drive after he spun and got hit in the left rear wheel, same gears ,same bearings for 16 seasons.
    I have the spare unit with the 9" drums and small end bearings in my 34, never needed to install it in the circle car....
     
  27. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,757

    JOECOOL
    Member

    I've got a Dana out of a Studebaker, The axles don't float ,they just fall to the floor.
     
  28. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 8,344

    jimmy six
    Member

    We run what is called a grand national rear end in our 1/2 mile dirt Super Stock at Perris Speedway. It is your typical 9" Ford pumpkin with floater axles, clamp on disc brakes and pads for leaf springs. They are available in a few different widths and with pinions centered so parts are readily available. Ours is a Speedway Engineering from Sylmar Ca. I would definatly put one in a street rod. Good Luck
     
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  29. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    correct , the later montes they changes the ring, pinion and carrier in the 7.5 housing to a stronger 7 5/8 unit , same fanged 7.5 housing ( 8.5 has blocks at 5 and 7) but all the BOP V-8 G bodies ran the 8.5 , My 86 poncho GP 2+2 ( aerocoupe ) had one and it was OEM , as I changed the gears from the 3:08 to a 3:23 to give the car a little more umph

    as for the floater look , I do remember seeing picture of the guys running full floater hubs on roadsters , they must have been using truck rears or QC style rears , I have to say it looks different , but a pain to find rims as you have the big center 4.5-5" hole to clear the hub unit , only seen a few shallow hubs
     
  30. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,354

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    In a street rig they serve no purpose. The racing associaions that require them do so so the cars won't loose wheels if they break an axle. At least you stirred the pot a bit.
     

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