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Got an FE for my 65 f100 and am trying to ID the motor

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by A Rodder, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    As the title says, these motors are kind of tricky to ID I hear

    here is a pic of the block casting
    [​IMG]

    C5AE -A from what I see it is a 65 352.







    Here is the heads
    [​IMG]

    C4AE then 6090-C from what I see is 64 to 65 427 high riser high performance 2.18 intake and 1.72 exhaust valves




    What do I have for sure?
    I Pulled it out of a running driving truck with a C6. It had compression of 140 140 165 167 170 168 165 180 in the cylanders with no noises and no smoke.
     
  2. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
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    erereplicas.com was the website I got the info from
     
  3. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    This is the stock restored truck its going in.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. morac41
    Joined: Jul 23, 2011
    Posts: 532

    morac41
    Member

    Hi Joe....It could also be a 390 1965 / C5AE-C...352 1965 / C5AE-B ....390 1963 Police solid lifters / C5AE-A../E... 427 1965 TOP OILER /

    It also could be a 330HD truck motor C5AE-A 64-67...Need to measure the bore to get correct identity....My information comes from Steve Christ big block Ford....Doug
     

  5. WrenchKitten
    Joined: Jul 18, 2009
    Posts: 116

    WrenchKitten
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    There's no way to tell between the 352/390 without checking the stroke. Cause the blocks are the same... most people are confused by this because of the "352" cast in the blocks.

    Nice truck, by the way.
     
  6. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    I've have four other 65-66 trucks and know the 352 casting doesn't mean anything.
    But does the other casting number in the pass side of the block not narrow it down?

    And what about the heads? Do those numbers mean anything?

    I don't want to pull the heads but I may pull the pan.
     
  7. Agreed. There are even plain 390 blocks with the 427 cast into them. Ford FEs need to be checked out internally to be sure.
    Here is a good site for info:
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/
     
  8. brechlrl
    Joined: Apr 6, 2007
    Posts: 143

    brechlrl
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    That is most likely a G and not a C on the head. Gs are a common FE head but a good one.

    To check for 390 or 352 pull out #1 plug.. Put the engine on TDC. Insert a flexible wire through the spark plug hole till it hits the piston and mark it. Put the engine on BDC. and mark again. If it's a 352 that measurement will be aprox 3.5 inches if it's a 390 it will be 3.75
     
  9. Squatch
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 125

    Squatch
    Member

    2X on the ford fe forum
     
  10. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
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  11. you can also shoot meangene427 a pm. He knows a thing about FEs, froezen merc knows a good bit too.

    network 54 is an awesome place for FE questions.
     
  12. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,734

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Thanks for the props Shocker. I have been watching this thread, and there is nothing else I can add. The OP just needs to measure bore and stroke. Most FE's are 40 to 50 years old and in that time alot of them have been rebuilt, bored, and stroked. So the casting numbers may say one thing, but whats inside may very well be completely different.
     
  13. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    You guys definitely confirmed that I need to pull the pan. The motor is all pulled and degreased, hopefully Monday or Tuesday I can pull the pan.

    On a different note, I have a complete factory tri power with rail, linkage etc.
    The motor had an edelbrock on it and it ran real clean and smooth.
    If I only change the I take setup am I asking for trouble? Do I have to go to headers upgrade the distributor and so on?

    Or do you think it should run fine?
     
  14. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,213

    mtkawboy
    Member

    NHRA blueprint specs show the heads as std 352/390 heads with 73.1 cc combustion chambers. They dont give block numbers on there
     
  15. 390kid
    Joined: Dec 29, 2004
    Posts: 641

    390kid
    Member

    should be progressive linkage? solid linkage you may have a problem. running mostly off the center carb you should be ok. killer truck by the way
     
  16. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    So I decided to order the hedman coated headers.
    So then I decided that I need a bad ass sounding cam with some pull to it.
    So I was looking at the thumpr cam, don't hate yet, I haven't ordered it yet.
    So then I really needed to know what I have.

    So today I pulled the intake and one head. It is a 65 390 bored .030 over. and has the stock heads that are used on the 352's and 390's.

    Any thoughts on a cam. I really like the sound of the thumprs. I am not really excited about changing converters but my carb guru said anything that sounds nasty at an idle will have a high duration at .50 degrees will have no vacuum and will require a higher stall. Others have said the same thing, even though contrary to the guys on the comp phone line.


    Any thoughts?
     
  17. RagtopBuick66
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,182

    RagtopBuick66
    Member

    Ooooooooooooooo... That's a nice one! I found a fresh completely rebuilt 390 bored +0.040, with forged aluminum pistons and reworked heads (D2TEAA = 1972 = hardened valve seats = unleaded gas!) in a salvage yard a few months ago. Brought it home for $146. Lemme know what cam you go with. I'm still working on getting mine wired up to the new harness (possibly tomorrow) and would be interested in swapping my cam out down the road.
     
  18. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,896

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  19. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

  20. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,734

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    These are just my thoughts on the Thumper Cams, so take them with a grain of salt. Sticking a Thumper cam into a stock motor just to get the "sound" is the definition of being a poser. Those cams generate the wanted sound by a large amount of OVERLAP. Overlap is the product of duration and "lobe separation angle", "LSA". The more overlap, the worse the engine efficiency (especially at low RPM). This means you are leaving horsepower and especially low rpm torque (what we really want in a truck anyways) on the table.

    I don't think you have described exactly what kind of build you want this motor to be, so I can't recommend a specific cam. Typically for a good street motor, a 110 degree LSA is good starting point. The thumper cams are ground on 107 LSA (LOTS of overlap). I used an Elgin Cam in my 352 with very good dyno results. Elgin offers a good guide to help pickout what size camshaft you will want to run.

    From Elgin's website: http://catalog.elginind.com/app/engine_tech.asp?category=Camshaft+Range+Guide

    Elgin performance cam and cam/lifter kits cover a broad range encompassing more than just horsepower and speed. Elgin performance cams also offer better low-end torque, better fuel economy, better towing performance, and improved engine efficiency. You will find cams that fit street use, oval racing, drag racing, and even applications for light trucks and RV's, in this section. By offering our full line of stock cams, that meet or exceed OEM specifications, with our performance cams you will have a complete program for your camshaft needs.

    The groupings below were designed to generalize the information and offer you an overview. Each cam's performance depends on other factors that affect the overall engine's performance. Remember ! Always replace lifters when installing a new cam. Old lifters will cause a new camshaft to fail as the wear pattern created on the cam lobe will surface when old lifters are used. There are NO exceptions to this rule.

    Also, when installing any Elgin performance cam, check to make sure there is adequate clearance between the valves and the pistons. Also, check to make sure the valve springs DO NOT compress solid.

    After rebuilding your engine the first few minutes of engine operation are the most critical. Be sure that you DO NOT allow your engine to run under 1500 RPM for the first five minutes to one hour ! Research tests have shown that if there is no metal pickup (or spalling) during this period, your Elgin camshaft will wear as long or longer than the engine's other components.

    Elgin performance cams are broken into five distinct categories from nearly stock (Range A) to camshafts designed for oval track or bracket drag racing (Range E). The durations shown are at 0.050" cam lift in each category. Descriptions within each range show cam characteristics in that range and any recommended modifications to the car or engine that will help you get the desired performance. Cam specifications will be included with each Elgin performance cam.

    Range A (Hydraulic: Up to 195° Effective Duration)

    Smooth stock type idle. Good low end torque in 1600 - 2000 RPM range. Operating power range 1000 - 3200 RPM. Best fuel economy cam with correct equipment. Good choice for heavy towing. Will work with stock or slightly modified engine, stock automatic or manual transmission. Compression 9.0 to 1 or less. Recommended spring pressure 95 lbs for valve on seat; 240 lbs for valve open. Stock axle ratio 3.50 to 1 and lower. Not recommended for racing.

    Range B (Hydraulic: 195° - 210° Effective Duration)

    Good to fair idle quality. Good low end torque and response in 1800 - 2600 RPM range. Good low end and mid-range power in 1500 - 4000 RPM operating range. Good fuel economy cam with correct equipment. Good choice for light towing. Compression 9.5 to 1 or less. Will work with stock or slightly modified engine, stock automatic or manual transmission. Recommended spring pressure 105 lbs for valve on seat; 265 lbs for valve open. Stock axle ratio 3.20 to 4.20 to 1 range. Not recommended for racing.

    Range C (Hydraulic: 210° - 225° Effective Duration)
    (Mechanical: 220° - 235° Effective Duration)

    Fair idle quality with lope. Good mid-range torque and response in 2400 - 3200 RPM range. Operating power range 2000 - 4800 RPM. Good fuel economy cam with correct equipment. Good choice for light towing. Compression 10.3 to 1 or less. Will work with stock or slightly modified engine, stock automatic or manual transmission. Recommended spring pressure 110 lbs for valve on seat; 280 lbs for valve open. Axle ratio 3.70 to 1 or higher is best. Recommended for mild bracket racing.

    Range D (Hydraulic: 225° - 240° Effective Duration)
    (Mechanical: 235° - 250° Effective Duration)

    Rough idle quality - (Note: Intake vacuum may be too low for power brakes, etc.) Good mid-range torque in 3000 - 4000 RPM range. Good mid-range power operating range 2200 - 5400 RPM. Average fuel economy cam not recommended for towing. Increased compression ratio best, 10.5 to 1 or 11.0 to 1. Some engine modification required. Use manual or automatic transmission with high stall converter. Recommended spring pressure 120 lbs for valve on seat; 300 lbs for valve open. Axle ratio at 3.90 to 4.50 to 1 is best. Recommended for limited oval track.

    Range E (Hydraulic: 240°- 255° Effective Duration)
    (Mechanical: 250° - 265° Effective Duration)

    Rough idle quality with heavy lope - (Note: Intake vacuum will not operate power brakes, etc.) Good mid to high RPM torque in 3800-5000 range. Good high RPM power, operating range 3200 - 6500 RPM. Average to poor fuel economy,definitely do not use for towing. Increased compression ratio required 10.5 to 1 to 12.0 to 1. Competition engine modifications required. Use only heavy duty manual or automatic (with high stall converter) transmission. Recommended spring pressure 125 lbs for valve on seat; 325 lbs for valve open. Axle ratio at 4.20 to 1 is best. Competition headers and valve job recommended. Recommended for oval track or bracket drag racing.
     
  21. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,859

    Retro Jim
    Member

    I have used the Thumper cams before and there is nothing wrong with them . They do sound mean but they also make good power and torque ! If you want a good sounding cam for a cruise then the Thumper cams are good but stay with the smaller Thumper cam . The larger cams you will have to do upgrades of your rear , converter , valve train and some other things as well .
    What you really need to know before you buy a cam is ,
    what are you wanting from your engine ?
    what are you going to use the engine for like street , cruise , race or ??
    what trans will you be using ?
    what rear gears do you have or will be using ?
    what intake ?
    what carb ?
    what ignition system will you be using ?
    is it going to be a daily driver or a weekend warrior to have fun with ?
    Then the last most important question is , How much $$ do you have to spend on an engine and upgrades ?

    If you are just wanting a cam to use with what you already have then you will end up with a mild torque cam . With bigger lift cams you are also going to have to upgrade you valve train as well . So if you can answer those questions , it will be much easier to give you some cam choices to look at .
    Just my opinion .

    Retro Jim
     
  22. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    Thanks merc, I will answer in this quote and maybe that will help with a recommendation.




    I plan to sell it later in the summer. The truck has little appeal to it now. It is beautiful but kind of boring. I am upgrading the six to the v8. Now is the time to make it cool, via the engine and sound.

    I would prefer the biggest, baddest sounding cam that will work with the stock valve train and converter. The smallest thumpr cams say they work with the stock converter, I am not really believing this too much.

    The thumpr cam with springs, lifters, retainers, chain etc is about 500 dollars. Plus the converter I believe should be replaced.

    So, yeah I kinda am Okay with being a poser. However it aint cheap so If I spend that kind of money on that cam setup with the upgraded springs, etc. it sounds to me there are better cams out there that perferm better and are not just to pose with.

    So, if I don't want to go with changing the spring, converter, etc. What would be the lopiest cam with my stock stuff?


    Thanks for your guys help, hopefully this will help you guys direct me.
     
  23. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,324

    derbydad276
    Member

    do your self a favor run a mallory any other breakerless iggy and hide the msd box in the glove box
     
  24. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member


    Because the points will fail, hard to adjust, or just for a hotter spark to keep the plugs cleaner due to the tri power?
     
  25. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    I ordered the small thumpr cam kit.

    Hive a couple weeks and I will report back.
     
  26. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,133

    hotdamn
    Member



    bump
     

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