It seems like it always comes back to the tire. It has got to be easier to run a safer tire than to find a way to limit the output of the engines that can, and have been built. I dunno...seems like the fix to this is a no brainer...maybe not. If I had to have a concern it would be for one of these old manual transmissions to explode and lock up the rear tires. I had that happen on a 55 chevy I was driving in 66 and I turned more donuts than the corner donut shop makes in a day. Ended up in the ditch still right side up. The other issue is the safety of the driver. I had my car finished and Bob H. told me that to run the SDRA deal I would have to install a 1/8" steel floor that ran from the firewall to the tailshaft of the tranny. I was already running a kevlar shield and a trans blanket and a .095 steel floor. I had to blow the car apart to install it, at a cost of $750 (steel and labor). Bottom line...you racers need to keep thinking safety and make clear what needs to be what for the new guys who are still building cars. I have not tried to take any sides on any issues...just wanted to express my opinion. Good luck to all of you. Zilla.
Yikes...thanks Bob...corrected my error... .125 is right, I had .095. My kevlar shield was 1/4" thick.
You know we keep bad mouthing the bias ply tire as being unsafe. The radial is no more speed safe than a bias ply unless it's speed rating is improved. They have went 300 mph on bias ply tires and raced Indy for years on bias plys. The bias ply tire was built on a bias for strength and the radial has the advantage of keeping the tread on the road at high side loads. You guys go out and look at you Cokers and they will have the same speed rating and load rating as your radials on your car. The radial would give us a little better traction because of a better footprint but I feel just as safe on those as I would a radial. There were an awful lot of drags won and lost on Bruce recap bias ply slicks. We don't have the heat build up in our racing that might cause a tire failure. Roy
I want to apologias. I have a very blunt and direct manner of speaking and writing. Most all the time, away from work, what I want to say comes out wrong. I've spent a lot of my working life giving orders, in an undiplomatic way; "Do it like this, with these materials, at this cost, in this time frame". I have no authority on this website or in any ones personal life. I don't speak for my team, just my own loud mouth. My only excuse is that I've been working sixty hour weeks to keep my head above water lately. I have bills to pay and dependents to feed. I come home and the house is a mess. I start to feel like I'm working for nothing and some people want to take away what little I have. I lash out. Ron has proven himself to be a great engine builder. That's what should have been said in this forum, in this tread. With all the talk of smoking the tires, I had a vision of stabbing 347 HP, at 1000 ft, on a 6" tire. There is a lot of stickum on the starting line nowadays, but that has been pretty much worn off towards the end of the track. I saw a car hit the wall, and that's what I wrote. Instead of looking like an advocate for safety, I add something harsh and stupid. I look like an asshole. I'll be driving tomorrow and I'll be the first to admit, I'm not the greatest. I plan to have fun and try and relax. My future in HA/GR? Right now, sit back, shut up and let it play out. My initial plan, when this thing started, was to keep the class fun, slow and therefore safe. If it must go faster, The best thing I can do is to get into safety. I plan to build a new chassis that is totally NHRA legal, for a lot faster than I plan to go. Will I get it done before next season? It depends on if I have to keep on working sixty hour weeks.
To keep off the engine topic and throw my 2 c. into the tire issue. I got this T roadster<<<over there<<<, 600x16 on the back Firestone Champs. I'm kinda concerned driving on the hiway at over 90 for more than a few miles cause the tires get hot. 70 for hours is OK but over 90 they start to get sticky hot. But I've been down the dragstrip with her. runs 13.5 @ 102. Not spectacular, but I did this without out tuning or changing anything but tire pressure. it's a 283 and a stick, 4.11 banjo open. Did 6 runs back-to-back at a T&T day. And the point is the tires were not an issue. The car went perfect straight, no steering at all. no shaking or vibrating, just perfect and not very exciting. Did let the air down to 20 in the rears for a little more grip at launch. And launch had to be let the clutch out at idle then nail it This is 1740 lbs + me @220=1960 lbs. 60 ft 2.16. Frank
Randy, I'm pretty sure we have a similar problem. I'm not very diplomatic and sound like a wise-ass, know-it-all sometimes. Actually, I'm not that way at all....I just think my presentation skills need some serious polishing. I mean well, I just don't express myself well. Your absolutely right about 347 HP being dangerous in one of these cars on a 6" tire. That's why I've talked to my partners and made it clear that I have control of the throttle opening (throttle stop already on the car). To be truthful speed scares the hell out of me, but I like to build engines for others to go fast. The fact that you have strong feelings for this sport, and HA/GR cars, shows that your anything but an asshole. Outspoken for the overall good of the sport...but not an asshole. Please continue to remind all of us just how dangerous these cars can be, and maybe keep someone from being a damn fool and trying to use 347 (or more) HP to impress everyone. Horsepower is great. Horsepower and stupidity is dangerous. Ron
most racing tires, slicks, dirt and pavement tires are bias belt and are safe if not they would have been banned a long time ago. back in the 70's I ran a c/sm at the end of the day the winner of each eliminator modified, super stock and stock would run each other for street eliminator, most of the time I would end up chasing my friend in a w/s pinto sw I didn't have a chance the best I could do was to run the index the W/Stock would run .40 under at will.The spectators didn't like it but I had fun.
This may save a lot of problems with the N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) bunch, we can all have "cookie cutter" cars that look like AA/FA chassis without bodies, weigh 2000 pounds or more and run in the high 12s. Might as well build a door slammer with a crate engine and spec tires. Just my biased feelings but it seems like we might as well bury the class and start up a "Vintage Rail" class like the modern FEDs and start throwing the big bucks at the cars so we can run at all the reunion type meets, look the same and show the crowds, (who never saw this type of car run) "what it was like back then", (with equipment that didn't exist). Sorry to be a painintheass but that's not what we are building for and I think that there are a lot of other builders out there who feel the same way. (end of rant)
For some time now I have enjoyed stopping by and reading about the cars that are being built here. I have always noticed that the guys really seem to be enjoying the build...excited to bring their creation to life. There is anything but a cookie cutter theme...and every creation more like a work of art. If you don't like to have the engine in the front...put it in the rear. You don't like running one engine...put in as many as you like. If your goal is being true to a picture that you have in your mind of cars from the days of yor...build it with parts that are not newer than from that era...or if you want to high-tech it then spend a million and have one carved out of solid billet. It is all here...that's what makes this whole thing so appealing. While a considerable part of this deal is the machine...a lot of it is you guys...that sweat and built the little bits that it takes to make the car come to life. The hours spent to craft a manifold...or disassemble an old part and rebiuld it. You can all be very proud of what you have brought to life. I don't believe that anyone will intentionally build a car to hurt them. But, you can not control every variable...even brand new parts fail and accidents happen. Just make sure you have rules that will provide the drivers and spectators with the best chances of having a safe day at the track. The key to being safe is to constantly check your equipment and never take the speed for granted. Everything else usually takes care of itself. Have fun and race safe...some words from an fan. Zilla.
I agree zilla, I have nothing against building and racing safe. I do find it absurd that you can run a quicker doorslammer without a cage and they want a funny car/top fuel cage in ours because they don't have doors or rear suspension. There does need to be a bit of concession to the fact our cars are in a rather different range of speed and et.
I agree....................I finally built a hot rod with welding hwlp from some friends. Other than that, I drew up every bracket, and the rest was from Speedway. Gets more attention than all my Camaros, Chevelles, Novas ever did. The fun does not end when you do it yourself, there was a saying in Two Lane Blacktop, that GTO made.
I really feel like I over built my car for safety sake. The only concern I ever had was with an engine fire. Most of the cars I have watched built here are well thought out. The cars that have been built with all original parts are pretty much self-regulated. The cars that have been built to press the boundry have had safety concerns pretty well addressed. So...I applaud all the builders for their effort and would like to encourage anyone who is thinking about building a car to not be put off by the little disputes that they might read here. There is so much passion involved with these cars that it sometimes get a little outside the white lines...but it is all good...and will only make things better and safer. It is a great class and is one of the best venues around for having a million dollars worth of fun on the cheap. On the side.......Zilla.
Lesseenow ......... Folks who are so into their hobby that they'll make it from scratch rather than do without when it comes to that. Who'll argue a point nearly to knuckles, then turn around and do it yet another way altogether. Who have more in common with their enemies than they do with their family & friends. Sound like anyone we might know? Like maybe all of us? Gentlemen, I have three primary hobbies (old racing cars, self built Rose Parade floats and Sn3 model trains) and each of'em is practiced at that level of passion. You've seen nothing 'til you've seen two idiots nose to nose over just exactly when and in which shop a particular broken rivet on a particular water tender was repaired (and this is no exageration). I've come to the conclusion that this's a result of my own personality rather than "the fates". It's no accident that we choose the pursuits we choose, and I believe it's far more the enjoyment of similarly empassioned folks than we care sometimes to admit. Perhaps we even enjoy the frustration itself to a small extent, certainly does get the ol' blood going. Randy, et al, I'd far rather what we have here than the typically social over polite obsequiance that leads to no progress. I mean shit, we RACE for Christ's sake, not embroider. Unimpassioned folks just don't do this. OK, enough. I'm getting misty and just had an urge to hug a bunny. Just keep being yourselves, gentlemen.
Ron your tech is excellant. Picking cam lift with a flowbench. For years I wondered if anyone else did. Knowing you cant lift faster then the piston moves out of the way and realizing too much lift can kill an otherwise excellant port s flow. etc etc. Solid stuff. Made my own flowbench as well. Changed a lot of how i did things about 18 years ago because the bench doeesnt care what you think you need. It is a heartless master of showing you what works and maybe more importantly what doesnt. . Maybe a simple pratical flowbench build on HAMB would help others. Anyway. keep up the great work Don
This I want to see! I am a year away from flowbench time in school, but it's been on mind a bunch lately. I found a clear resin to cast my parts out of so I can see the flow, now I need to learn the rest of it.
yeah- it's called "mass clear resin". According to the guy I spoke with, it stays clear in thicker section than other resins, and there is something to its low heat building qualities or something too, so it cures better, or clearer, or something. The place I talked to stocks it in 55gallon drums, a quart is under $20, and a gallon is under $50. 5 gallons is $160. The catalyst is like 7 bucks to cure the 5 gallon.
Don, Thanks. There are different thoughts on valve lift vs port flow. Some want the most/fastest lift possible. I'm not sure that works 100% at all rpm's. Years ago I used a shopvac to pull air through the port while I shot dycum in, to see where the air/fuel mixture would actually go. I've used dental mold material to make quick molds of ports to get a visual of what the port looks like. It's the stuff the dentist uses to make molds for dentures. Cheak, quick and easy to remove from the port. Ron
Dont get discouraged Ron. Critics are a dime a dozen. Never met a critic though who had actually built something himself. I wonder why that is? Rules . I prefer just going to test and tunes. Other than safety rules i decide what my car has. When rules become too oppressive someone is afraid they are gonna get beat i figure but these cars and even my senior dragster are not about that. They are about fun . Having been a Mopar guy in a chevy town i know all about being the odd man out. Now i no longer care. When they get critical or mouthy i just say "so beat me." Your tech stuff was extremely good. You engine is making huge power proving that you know what you are doing and talking about. Put it in what you want with what you want. If they refuse to let you play then they will have less cars. Hurts them not you. Used to be back in the day a slush box was considered a handicap, not an unfair advantage. What happened?
Seems like people forgot how to shift their own gears.......Hell, ya can't even get a stick in a lot of the new cars, so there are a lot of folks that have never driven a stick.
Stock slush pumps were indeed a liability then, their torque converters actually. They had far more slippage than modern units. That was the biggest single improvement in the race modified units (B&M, Art Carr, etc.) at the time. It still came to less driver involvement, and thus less driver responsibility for the race even then. The car was made responsible for shifting (and now days for not over-taching, etc, etc, & ad nauseum). I'm not sure why modern drag racers feel the need to manage even just the pedal and wheel themselves, their computers could certainly do it more reliably and the car'd be lighter without'em (not to mention the facilities to carry'em). Sorry 'bout that gentlemen, I do go off on the occasional tangent, and usually wind up looking silly doing it of course. .......... and I pray no one from No Hot Rods Allowed picks up on the idea. After all, it would certainly be safer for the "racers".
Don't feel silly, the USAF's doing it (getting rid of the MK I eyeball onboard) why shouldn't you think of it in other venues? (no, I'm not saying it should happen but if someone want's to look hard enough, I bet someone already is doing that somewhere).
Hell.......we could all just drag race in some computer game, but that's not why we build these things. Then again, I like flying low and slow in our 1946 non electric, hand prop start Aeronca Champ without a radio.
wow.... congrat's sir, thats going to be a blast to drive... suspect that she's quite a loud bit of gear.... Cheers, Drewfus
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