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gm aircraft engine, and other goodies

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by snortonnorton, May 29, 2006.

  1. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    went to the warbird museum in titusville by my house and found this killer gm made aircraft engine, how sweet would this be in a car? it looks classic. gm 1710 engine, don't remember the aircraft it went in, sorry, i was too busy looking for german plans and migs. they're restoring a famous c-47 there, the tico belle or something?

    you guys might like the packard 120 that was there too....
     

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  2. that's an Allsion V-12 i beleive. was used in the P-47 (twin engine) and the first P-51's until it was replaced by the rolls royce merlin
     
  3. That is certainly an Allison V-12, but it didnt come from a P-47 they were single engine Pratt & Whitney R-2800 series 18 cylinder radial engine.
    I guess you are thinking of the P-38 Lightning, twin engined, twin booms.
    The Allison was in the early P-51s form the real early Apache (first version of the Mustang before being so named) up untill the P-51B models.
    I volunteer restoring aircraft, have done for about 17 years now.

    Heres a good use for a few spare allisons........
    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Doc.
     
  4. Just re-read my post, it sounds condecending but thats not how I meant it to sound. Just wanted to clear up any confusion.
    Doc.
     

  5. KoppaK
    Joined: Dec 21, 2004
    Posts: 1,517

    KoppaK
    Member

    Is that the same as the motor in Big Al?
     
  6. you're right....i meant P-38
     
  7. Chebby belair
    Joined: Apr 17, 2006
    Posts: 830

    Chebby belair
    Member
    from Australia

    I heard somewhere that back in the late 20's early 30's, a GM division called Chevrolair manufactured an alloy straight six for use in air racing - used in the Travel Air Mystery Ship I think(?). Anyone know about this? If true, it would make a killer mill for a rod!
     
  8. The Chevrolair ”Mystery Ship” was a follow on to the original “Mystery Ships” that were Wright J6-9 or Wright J975 powered. Only one was built and it was unveiled at the 1929 National Air Races.
    This one was powered by the six cylinder Chevrolair, manufactured by Arthur Chevrolet Aviation Motors Corporation of Indianapolis, Indiana. This was a test model six cylinder inverted inline engine. Designated the D-6 it developed 165 hp and 2175 rpm, was air cooled and had a 508 cu. in. displacement.
    There was also a smaller version the D-4 90-120hp 352ci.
    Cheers,
    Doc.
     
  9. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    sweet, thanks for the helpful info, should have known someone already tried to put these babies in a racer.

    they look cool as shit, just like the norton is my favorite motorcycle engine(with vincent black shadow tied)

    this engine is now my favorite large engine.
     
  10. Ramblur
    Joined: Jun 15, 2005
    Posts: 2,101

    Ramblur
    Member

    My neighbor has 70 some of those allisons stashed. Most are brand new
    in the crate since mid 40's,P38 spec iirc. I believe he just offered a couple
    dozen of em up for sale recently. If your ever near I-4 exit 44 in central
    Fla. his place shouldn't be missed. www.fantasyofflight.com
     
  11. Chebby belair
    Joined: Apr 17, 2006
    Posts: 830

    Chebby belair
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks - I have long been a fan of the golden age of air racers. The travel air mystery ship was a sensation that outperformed the best military aircaft of the day. It might not be a car but I call that the same kind of hot rodder spirit as Ak Miller in last Carrera.

    Its one thing to hop up a jalopy and race, but its an entirely different thing to design a plane and race it. Could you imagine what would happen if a privateer develped an aircraft today that outperformed f22 raptor?
     
  12. Here is a 3000 hp R-2800 from a P-47N, which by the way was built by Chevrolet. :eek:
    Wish I had a pic of the bowtie.
     

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  13. Yeah but only under licence, quite a number of aero engines were made by different companies. The Rolls Royce Merlin used in the P-51s were licence built by Packard!
    Doc.
     
  14. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Most models of the P40 Warhawk used the Allison too, don't forget. I used to have a GM/Allison advertisement printed off the computer and taped up on my wall at school.

    I swear to God I saw a Model A roadster with an Allison V12 in it when I was at the Merc-Deuce reunion years and years ago.

    -Dave
     
  15. Also used in the Bell P39 Airacobra and P-63 Kingcobra.
    Some of the best uses were by Art Afrons in his series of "Green Monster' cars.

    Doc.
     
  16. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I recently got hold of an Allison overhaul manual...by checking the dumpster behind an antique store!
    Mine is for the rear-engine setup on the P-39--engine behind driver, long driveshaft at crank level, gearbox up to propeller with cannon firing through the propeller hub!!
    The details of the engine are amazing. When you see a picture of one, it looks like it is just a stretched version of a typical car engine, a monster BBC or something. NOTHING is done the way you would assume--jackets, sleeves, mystery widgets and unexpected engineering everywhere. The gigantic tools for things like screwing down barrels probably cost as much as a whole mechanic's set of Snapon car tools.
     
  17. Now you know why an airworthy Allison V-1710 costs more than a million bucks!!
     
  18. Ted H
    Joined: Jan 7, 2003
    Posts: 312

    Ted H
    Member

    Thanks, DocWatson! I,ve been trying to remember Art Afrons name for months. In the mid to late fifties you couldn"t hardly pick up a hotrod mag that didn't have an article on his Green Monsters.
    Ted
     
  19. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 6,921

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    Yep, and if there is a stach of "P-38 spec" Allisons around, half of them are gonna be counter-rotating. ;)

    I do love those big V-12s. I can't imagine a Model A with one, since it makes 1800hp and weighs about 1200lbs. :D
     
  20. Thats unless you have the ones sold to Britain, they had both Allison's spinning the same way. Made the P-38 into an absolute POS!
     
  21. skajaquada
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 1,642

    skajaquada
    Member
    from SLC Utard

    now there's a smack in the forehead...that's funny:D
     
  22. Made them step up on the development of the Mosquito though, thats an awesome aircraft, twin RR Merlins.........
    At the time the US had problems of its own, a slight misshap in a place called Pearl Harbour.
    Doc.
     
  23. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 6,921

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    The Mosquito is one awesome airplane, even if it is made out of wood. :D

    Just remembered, I saw this plane at a tiny museum in San Francisco a couple of weeks back, it had a Ford flathead in it. I had no idea anyone had done that, but given the V8's ubiquitous nature, I'm not really surprised.
     

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  24. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    I've heard of Model A powered aircraft, perhaps that's a hot rodded A/V8 plane!

    -Dave
     
  25. propwash
    Joined: Jul 25, 2005
    Posts: 3,858

    propwash
    Member
    from Las Vegas

    A guy named Bob something in north end of King County, WA (north of Seattle), used to have about 50 or 60 brand new, still in the crate Allison 1710s...the boxes had a cool little lens-window in them that allowed you to see the engine stamping number....he was the main supplier to all the Unlimited Hydros before the Turbine became the engine of winners. Went out there one day, he had one on an engine stand (that stand itself was a piece of art). Inside that V12 was beautiful...every other con rod was forked, so the cylinders were directly across from each other (not offset like typical V8) - had roller bearings...just exquisite (as you'd need it to be when it's keeping you aloft at 25,000 ft ASL). I always wanted to stuff one of those sweeties in the back of a 55-59 Carryall/Suburban and have six pipes sticking out on each side. But....somehow, that never came to fruition...

    "maintain thy airspeed, lest the ground rise up to smite thee"

    dj
     
  26. Hebee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2006
    Posts: 41

    Hebee
    Member

    It is very interesting to note that the Mustang (Apache) was actually built for the Brits. The plane as built, with an Allsion, was not a stellar performer. It was actually the RAF's idea to replace the Allsion with the Roll Royce Merlin. The result was a plane with few if any equals during the big one. It proved to be so good that we decided to get on board also. My father flew P-47s in England and always commented that it wasn't the fastest or the coolest but it could take one hell of a pounding and get you home. His last flight in a P-47D resulted in a crash landing in England. He took several 20mm rounds from an AA position in Holland while retuning from a straffing run. I still have several of the flight instruments and the tail wheel from that plane. :D
     
  27. Beach Bum
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 573

    Beach Bum
    Member

    I used to work in tech pubs at the B-1 division of North American Rockwell in El Segundo. A few years before I got there they cleaned the "old stuff" out of the tech library and some of the old timers were smart enough to save alot of stuff and they were kind enough to give some of it to a gearhead kid who came to work for them, me. B-25H maintenance manual, leather bound small format flight manuals for P-51B/C and B-25H (the model with the 75mm cannon in the nose). Study copies of flight manuals for P-51D & H, F-82, F-86 and X-15. One of the best is the set of top prints for the XB-70 Valkyrie, stamped Top Secret. Cool stuff, great artwork. I still love old airplanes and in So Cal you still see alot of them flying around.

    Cheers,
    Kurt
     
  28. leon renaud
    Joined: Nov 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,934

    leon renaud
    Member
    from N.E. Ct.

    Packard and allison engines went into ww2 pt boats also.Ford built airplanes for a while and actually made aluminum flathead v8s for use in them but never did go into full production it was intended for small private planes simular to piper cubs etc.there were a lot of aircraft conversion stuff for Ford flat four in homebuilt aircraft both T and A engines were used and some were installed and run upside down !not sure how they were run that way but have seen some pics of them.Art and his brother Walt both ran Allison powered dragsters Walt ran the Cyclops cars until injured in a crash in one .I had the privledge of working on Art Arfons' tractor pulling team when he came to thompson speedway at that time he was running 1400 horsepower Huey turbine engine in his Green Monster tractor got pics here someplace from back then
     
  29. Prop Strike
    Joined: Feb 18, 2006
    Posts: 651

    Prop Strike
    Member

    Cadillac figured out how to make the allison superchargers work. Buick, Ford, Chevrolet, Singer Sewing Machine, and many other American mfrs produced under license for the war effort. The glut of war surplus aircraft parts after WWII spawned many aircraft powered rods. NHRA banned use of aircraft engines in competition, but the weight penalty inherent to using them had already put them on the sidelines. Walt and Art Arfons were the pioneers. Even in the late forties early 50's offshore powerboat racers were using allison and Merlin power. The only thing that comes close to sounding as sweet as a radial is a Merlin. I've got a blueprint cutaway of a Merlin waiting to be framed and hung in the dining room. The upside down motors ran dry sump oil system and updraft pressurized carbs (think TBI). Liberty actually prototyped a W-24 engine and produced a few. Used a central crankshaft. Commonly called the 'Little engine that couldn't' as it was entered into the arena too late (1947?) and was underpowered. Keep it going.
     
  30. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    And the best part of all that is, none of this was that new. Great War surplus Liberty aircraft engines were powering race boats, race cars and rum runners in the 1920s!

    -Dave
     

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