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Technical GM 10 bolt questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 50styleline, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    First, very frustrated and yes I did use the search before posting this. After learning the hard way that I needed the rear out of a 4x4 and not a 2wd I now have both. Problem- the one that fits needs seals. Figured I would replace all the bearings while I was at it. Obstacle-the bolt that holds the center pin broke on disassembly. Can I just drill it out and use the diff out of the narrower one and put it all together. 4x4 is an 83 and the 2wd is a 94. I'm guessing from what I've read that the spline count is the same and it should swap. Thanks ahead for any input. Gonna walk away from it for a day or two so my blood pressure will drop.
     
  2. Yep they are the same rear.
     
  3. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,584

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My experience has been that those break because the pin is loose in the carrier but you won't know that until you get it apart.
    I'm not sure on drilling the pin but have a notion that you would have to replace the carrier after drilling it out because the drilling is most likely going to damage the carrier.
     
  4. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Yeah, kinda figured i'd mess it up drilling at that awkward angle.
     

  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,292

    squirrel
    Member

    use a left hand drill bit, it might unscrew. You didn't say where the pin is broken....????

    Beware that if you swap the center into the other housing, you'll need to mess with the shimming to get the carrier bearing preload correct, and the gear mesh correct. You know that the ring and pinion are a matched set and need to stay together, and that setting them up correctly is an involved process, eh? Crush sleeve and pinion bearing preload are other things you get to worry about if you remove the pinion yoke.
     
  6. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Squirrel, it's the bolt that holds the pin. I was hoping to extract by whatever means and then swap just the carrier if that makes sense.
     

  7. If you are replacing seals you are going to have to pull the yoke so basically you are setting up the rear and if that is the case swapping the carrier is no biggy. just make sure that you keep the ring and pinion together and you are good to go.
     
  8. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,841

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    My luck has been using a pick and just keep at it turning the bolt out all that I seen there will be one thread left on the end of the bolt and they will just screw out. It will take some patience.
     
  9. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,080

    Joe H
    Member

    Depending on where the pin broke, it may come out fairly easy. I see them break down past the threads, and once you back the nut off, its just a matter of hooking the pin, wiggling the cross shaft, and hoping it falls out. I have had them fall right out when upside down.

    joe
     
  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,292

    squirrel
    Member

    The bolt is threaded for about 1/2" length at the end with the hex head, then the rest is smaller diameter unthreaded. Hope you can get it out, I've only encountered a couple broken ones and managed to get them out without too much trouble.

    as I said before, be sure you understand all about how setting up rearend gears, bearing preload, backlash, etc works before you get too far along.
     
  11. woodz
    Joined: Feb 23, 2010
    Posts: 517

    woodz
    Member

    I have had a few of these break off over the years and have always been able to get them out with out removing the carrier. A reverse cut drill bit and some patience are your best friends here.
    I agree with Squirrel, You need a bit more then just basic understanding to swap the carriers around. Make sure you take a gear pattern reading and measure the backlash before you remove the carrier so you know where they ring and pinion gears are meshing. You will need to put it back together in the same location with the same backlash to prevent them from whining. Its not rocket science but it does take some knowledge and experience. But the only way to learn is to do :)
    Good luck
     
  12. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,750

    sdluck
    Member

    There was a company that made a special kit to remove them,It had a extra long drill bit and an allen bolt that had a hole thru the center.You screwed the allen in and it jammed the broken piece then the drill went thru the center of the allen so you could drill it.Usually if you clean it real good you can unscrew it with a dental pick.I have blown some out with air.
     
  13. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    THWY ACTUALLY MAkwe A KITA



    There are a couple of vendors that make the kits use to remove the broken bolt. See a Snap-On dealer truck.. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  14. eberhama
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 673

    eberhama
    Member

    I had one break off with no threads on it, I was able to stick a strong magnet to a small pick and drag it out through the bolt hole. I had another break with a little thread on it, so I couldn't do that trick again. I ended up using a dremel with a cut off wheel and notching the center pin on either side of the bolt, then gave it a couple sharp blows with a hammer and punch, and shattered the piece out. I was then able to slide the pin out and cut the piece of bolt out.
     
  15. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Well, I left it alone for today because a common and necessary tool listed by you guys is patience. I will let that build up and then get back at it but I wanted to thank all for the input.
     
    saltflats likes this.
  16. flux capacitor
    Joined: Sep 18, 2014
    Posts: 676

    flux capacitor
    Member

    Not knowing if it's fairly flush or a deep break I had it happen to a 72 Monte Carlo 10 bolt years back and centered up a nut & mig welded nut on to broken spider pin bolt n it came out easy. Best of luck!
     
  17. BobMcD
    Joined: Jan 25, 2013
    Posts: 322

    BobMcD
    Member

    Alot of good tips here. I have found the bolt usually broken with one thread left and have used a pick to unscrew the bolt as others have mentioned. When all else has failed, I have used a Dremel with a small cutoff wheel and notched the end of the pin where the bolt goes through. Push the pin out and then slide the bolt out with needle nose pliers. You will have to replace the pin, but the carrier stays in place. We used to stock new bolts because we found many broken when we went to replace rear seals.
     
  18. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    OK now I am really frustrated. After finally getting the bolt out I go to swap the carrier and things don't seem right figured I would step back and look at what is being done and why it won't puzzle together. The axle shafts at the splines from the good carrier measure 1.250(1 1/4) with calipers and the other measures 1.125(1 1/18). So next I thought just swap the gears but the gap for the pin remains too wide. My question is should these gears inside the carrier be shimmed to fit. Getting fed up with this damned thing but don't want to anything wrong at this point. Thanks in advance for any input. FYI both sets of ring pinion gears are 7 5/8 and kept mated.
     
  19. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,250

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    An 84 is an early 1st gen S10 and had at most a 2.8 V6.
    The 94 is the first year for the 2nd gen S10 and I'm pretty sure had a larger rearend, even with a 4 cyl, although still a 10 bolt.
    There has been a variety of "10 bolt" rearends of different actual sizes for the S10 as they progressed, not to mention the normal small changes a manufacturer might make as year to year upgrades.
    This "10 bolt"/"12 bolt" way of IDing GM rears has caused a load of confusion thru the years.
    I'd guess there are perhaps 6 or 7 distinct versions of "10 bolt" rearend assemblies in GM vehicles with little or no internal swap-ability.
    Pretty sure thats what you are into.
    Get some pics up of what you have. Rearend covers etc and more details of the vehicles both rearends came out of and it should be fairly simple to ID what you have with an internet search.
     
  20. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Finally, an update with good news. I was able to drive it today. Learned a lot about this in the process as I was warned before about how much is involved. All new bearings and crush sleeve. Twenty-six inch pounds to turn the pinion and good markings on both sides of the ring gear and backlash is in tolerance but it still hums at about 45 mph. The only thing left is new spider gears in the carrier. The ones I used looked in good shape but not sure about measuring or verifying contact on them. Any input???
     
  21. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,841

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I would not suspect the noise is coming from the spiders unless you have two different size rear tires on it.
    You would have seen if the spiders were bad they will have chips or worn in grooves.
     
  22. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,250

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Right on. The spiders don't even work going straight down the road...only in turns....unless, as Saltflats pointed out, you have different size tires on the rear axle.
    Didn't use the crown from one rearend with the pinion from the other did ya? That could give you issues...
     
  23. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    The spiders looked to be in decent shape. The hum is only at about 45. It coasts and fine lower or higher speeds don't make any noise. Could it need "break in" miles. Just don't want to drive it if I'm doing damage.
     
  24. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    No mixing gears. They were a matched set and the tires are the same- almost new
     
  25. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,841

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    There wouldn't be any brake in on used gears.
    Maybe look at your ujoints real close and check your drive line angle.
     
  26. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    I'll check that next, thanks
     

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