============================================= QUICK NOTE- I'M HOPING TO KEEP THIS POST GOING AS OUR PROJECT PROGRESSES, SO JUMP TO THE END TO SEE WHAT OUR CURRENT PROGRESS IS AND WHAT NEW QUESTIONS WE HAVE. ============================================= Hey all, This is my second thread I've started, but this is going to be the keeper. I teach shop at Grandview High School in Grandview, WA. We picked up a 1949 Ford Custom Sedan, V8 manual. We've got a lot of work to do on it and I've only ever worked on 60's cars and newer, so even I am learning some new stuff as we go along. So far all we have done is gutted the interior due to a former mouse infestation. I pressure washed the engine bay because it was too dirty to work on and we were given the carb before we got the car, so we already rebuilt that. I bought a new battery. I'll get pictures of stuff soon. All this said, we believe that it has sat, outside, since 1963. The engine turns over by hand, and even via the starter (I jumped the solenoid, we have no keys). Sorry if my thoughts are jumbled, I'm on short time to write this and want to get all the important info out. Either way, I as given some advice on another forum. We plan to follow it. One big question I have now is- should we remove the intake as advised, or should we just remove the engine with tranny so that we can just tear things don and clean them up properly? One thing I do know, as a shop teacher, is that we need to move fast and clean in order to keep a project like this moving. Kids lose things, break things, and so sometimes I just want to go with whatever is easiest. We also don't have a big budget to spend. Right no I'd say we've got $1000 to get us started. We have lots of materials and machinery, just a low budget for parts. I figure $50 will be needed for a key set (doors and ignition). We already have all of the tune up components for the ignition system. If we do a tear down, I'll need gaskets, hopefully not bearings. Below is that advice, any other thoughts????
Greetings from Australia gijoe. I was a trade teacher (plumbing & gasfitting) over here for 26 years, so I know where your heads at! I'd run with the check list you have, it looks like it's pretty comprehensive and should let you know if you've got an affordable project. I don't know how big your class is or how you'll deploy them, but would like to suggest you photograph and/or video each section before removal & use labelled ziploc bags for all the nuts, bolts etc. for the component being removed. It's saved my bacon numerous times. Good luck with the project and I hope your class appreciates the opportunity they're getting.
I think you've got a good game plan figured out there to get ya started . I'd pop the intake off in the car . That way , if all looks well , you can move along to the next thing . If you're not worried about having door keys , you can always get a new universal ignition switch at AutoZone or something for just a few bucks . My guess is that the waterpumps are gonna leak like a seive as soon as you start it . You can get new replacements through Speedway at a pretty decent price . Make sure you take plenty of pics as you go along , so you remember how it goes back together , as well as labeled baggies (like rodl also suggested) . Also , if didn't get one already , get a copy of the green bible . It will help a lot . I'm sure you already know , but it's a 6-volt positive ground car ... Good luck with the project !
I'd start that engine before you pull it so you'll have an idea of how good it is. I'd do it with the class so they'll know how to start one in a car with no keys. Run compression and leak-down tests to teach the kids how and what they indicate as far as engine condition as a starting point. Drive it in the parking lot to discern clutch/transmission/rear axle/brakes/steering condition. Only then would I tear it down...
Your plan looks good, Dennis Carpenter and Bob Drake have some of the hard parts you will need. Good luck with you and your students . Frank
You can drop the complete ign switch out of the dash without removing any wires. Then look at the ridge cast in the housing that clocks the switch in the dash hole. In that opening there is a 1/8" dowel pin. Pull the pin out and the complete key tumbler will slide right out of the switch housing. Now reinstall the switch in the dash and you can use a flat blade screw driver to turn the switch on and off. Next remove the glove box door push button latch, the one that the key fits in. Now send me both of the key tumblers and I will get keys cut that fit what you have. Then you will have trunk and door keys also. That's providing it still did use it's original keys. I'm also in Wa State. If interested send me a P.M. Here are 2 photos of one of my drivers. There are many photos of it floating around on here. The Wizzard
Well, just due to what was convenient for today, we added brake fluid to the dry master cylinder, bled the brakes, and we have braking power. At least enough to stop the wheels from us spinning, but that's better than nothing. No apparent leaks. Probably will remove the intake next week. We checked for fluids. Differential and transmission are low/empty. I read elsewhere that a GL4 fluid would be best. We'll have to see if Oreilly's has anything for us. We're also going to have to track down a non detergent oil. Removing the oil pan, in vehicle, looks like a real pain considering the location of the front crossmember. If we wanted to switch to detergent oil, could we flush the system in a way that didn't plug everything up? I've heard of people just doing mutliple oil changes back to back to get sludge out. That was on a modern Toyota though. They'd change the oil and then run it for a while and then change it again. Continued the process until things started coming out clear. Open for ideas.
I'd advise against the detergent oil till you remove the intake and see just what's in the galley. You can't believe how much sludge can be in one of them. Braking all that loose can plug up the oil pump pickup screen. If you happen to get lucky and it's not bad then maybe try it. I'm not a fan of doing that change overt on an old running motor. I'm not sure what GL-4 is but 90/130 is what they always used and is still on the shelf. When you start cleaning things up don't forget to do the road draft tube. If you have Vermin inside the galley that's how they get there. Also before I spin a motor that's been sitting a long time I shoot some Marvel Mystery oil down the plug holes. A little top lube goes a long ways on dry cylinder walls and rings. I also make sure to have Oil Pressure on the gauge before I put the plugs back in and try to start it. The Wizzard
GL4 vs GL5 is the rating systems for gear oil. What I read elsewhere was that the current standard, GL5, may have some additives in it that can mess with the innards of the transmission. Kinda like using the wrong ATF in your car. It will "work", but over time it will prematurely wear things. The poster said that if you can find older GL4 stuff that it would not create that problem. How many PSI would one of these flatheads create on a compression test? I assume with the lower compression, it'd be a lower reading. Obviously check for differences between cylinders, but curious on what "good" would be. We've head the car in the air again today (for the beginning classes to learn about the underside of a car) so we adjusted the brakes and started wire brushing all of the gunk off of the bottom. Trying to clean off the grease fittings. Might just go through and replace them. I've got a bunch.
For a '49 it should be 110 psi. Here are a couple of pages that should be helpful, first is for compression second is for vacuum: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_tuneup49-53_239-255.htm http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_other-pics/vacuumgauge-chart.jpg Shoebox Central in Oklahoma City (www.shoebox-central.com) is a great place to get lots of hard-to-find parts. Any pictures of the car?
This advice is golden. Follow it. Waking up a car that's been sleeping in the proper way is the difference between a good runner and turning a good runner into junk. Also, be sure to change the brake fluid by flushing the system with fresh fluid before you even think about driving it. You'll find out why when you see (and smell!) all the crud and corruption that come out of the bleeders. Adding fluid will get the brakes working, but they won't work for long if you don't get all the crud out. The new fluid will also help swell the seals and lube the system. Good luck, just don't rush it...
The above info is correct for a good healthy running motor. I've also had them run fine down to as little as 90 lbs. The thing you don't want is a wide spread from low to high. I've been told 10 percent spread from low to high is ok. They just don't idle real good when they are further apart. Not to mention something is going away if the spread is more than that. A dry motor is going to have low numbers. That don't mean it won't come out of it specialy if it has Cast Iron rings. Your motor most likely does. Myself on cars that have sat long enough for the brake fluid to dissapear I take all 5 hyd units apart and clean them. You can usually re use the rubber cups as long as you have not tried to bleed them yet. That is unless it was leaking when being driven last. I also flush the steel lines with Karosene and air before adding new fluid. The Wizzard
Yeah, we'll do a lot of the above advice. We're on a really tight budget, but we are plentifully supplied with forced teen labor. We'll have to figure out what to do with our interior as well. We're tempted to use the HD sewing machine from the home ec department to try doing our own upholstery. The mice did a number on it.
Alternative to painting. It looks like people have cleaned rust with CLR, and then just did a thick coat of wax for protection. Seems like a fad right now to keep the patina look. I could care less for the look, but if it got rid of our rust and prevented us from spending the time to paint it, I'd be happy...
The brake lines & rubber hoses will need to be replaced. Teach the Kids how to paint it before you wax it.
If the right side is as nice as the driver side you have a very nice project. I'm impressed. Over all I'd say that's better than most project cars you can find. If the machine in Home Ec can sew curtains or cordoroy they can sew up some seat covers. That would be a good job for the Girls that want to ride around with the Guys. Depending on how far apart you plan on going just be darn careful. Things like those trim clips on the left rear quarter are hard to come by. None of the repro's work like the factory ones. That radio delete plate also has some value, don't just pitch it. Again, nice project. Wish I had found it. The Wizzard
Wow, that's certainly nicer than anything I've been able to find around here for any reasonable cost. X2 on paint, even if you just spray some thinned-out Rustoleum on it, the concepts (especially with surface prep) are close to the same as the high-dollar jobs. I'd say just get some foam and batting over the springs and use Mexican blankets for seat covers. I like Pist-N-Broke's idea though, get a little cooperation going. Maybe have a car to do big smoky burnouts at pep assemblies
Small dent in the door on the right. Really the only body damage on the car. The trunk is rusted through a bit. Not bad enough that I'd replace the whole trunk floor. More like a patch job. We did just finish painting a 1965 mustang. We did the full deal. Took us 2 years. BC/CC, wet sanded and buffed. Looked great. I guess I just wanted to avoid all that work again. But you guys are right. A quickie paint job would make a world of difference and would not be that hard. Right now we are killing rust in the trunk and cabin. Wire brushing followed by a killing chemical. Any recommendations on where to buy carpet and upholstery fabric? Also, I kinda need a visual of what the insides of these seats are supposed to look like, stuffing wise. The mice ate so much, I don't really know what was in there. Springs obviously. Could I add foam? Anyone have a link to a seat reupholstering job on one of these cars?
I saw a DIY seat reupholstering job in somebody's build thread, I'll see if I can find it again. Stock had a layer of burlap over the springs, cotton batting over that and then the seat fabric itself.
I'm lucky enough to have an upholstery warehouse across the river from me. Perfect fit. They have been in Portland since Christ was a kid. I buy nearly all my product from them. They also have a store in Seattle. I'm sure they have a web sight somewhere. They will ship and maybe give the School a discount. Worth asking for. I buy all my headliners from ACME Headliners. They are cheep and a direct factory replacement and user friendly. Again I'd tell them who you are and ask for that discount. Carpet kits are out there but you still need to trim some. Might as well buy it by the yard (same place) and do it in house as well. It's a pretty flat floor. Being you can paint the car in house I vote for the paint job. The Wizzard
Wizzard, what's the name of that upholstery warehouse? I'd be interested for my eventual shoebox build.
Here's a thread on DIY upholstery. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-diy-upholsetry.143204/
I second wanting to know the name of the fabric place. I may try the local Joann Fabric and just see what they've got. The ACME Headliner website didn't mention shoebox Fords. Only old Chevys. I may need to contact them. I had considered having headliner and door panels also just done custom from fabric. Next week we are pulling the intake, continuing to kill rust and mice poop on the inside of the car, and maybe looking at brakes. We can do a lot in house. We don't have a ton of cash for parts, but we have many fun gadgets. For instance, if I can piece together front disc brake parts from the junk yard, we have a cnc plasma cutter that could cut out the brackets. I'd just need to make the measurements. I could probably just copy what I've seen online for a shape and then measure the bolt holes on the car.... Now I'd just need to know which cars to try to steal parts off of. Longer term it might be fun to get a maverick diff with some discs as well. P.s.- I'll keep the pics coming. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and get kids to start sanding the exterior for paint...
I'd suggest looking at one of the kits that's available and going off of the recommended calipers and discs that go with them. As has been widely documented elsewhere on here, the 8.8" rear end out of an Explorer fits as well. You have to shorten the passenger side by 3" and use a driver's side axle in both sides but they're much more readily available (and cheaper) than maverick units and come with disc brakes, posi and 31 spline axles. Ratios are either 3.73 or 4.10.
So a bit more work, but worth it perhaps... I bet the local yard has a few mavericks. That place is an old car gold mine. Maybe I should post you all some pictures. I don't even know where to begin. But there are a lot of 60s, 50s, and even 40s vehicles out there. And I just found out last week that there is a secret section with even more classics. I may go tomorrow. I actually bet he's got a shoebox that I could snag parts off of... And probably an explorer too.
If you can find a maverick rear end that's usually the best choice, all you have to do is relocate the spring perches. The ratios are awful high though, most came with either a 2.79 or a 3.00.
Well I guess I didn't make that clear enough. The name of the upholstery warehouse is Perfect Fit. I will get you the address and ph # today. I know ACME makes headliners for Fords. The one in my 51 came from them and was made in nauga hide grade and color (white) of my choice. I also will be getting the one for my 57 Ford from them. Go back to the web sight and look for a drop down menu. Maverick and Granada share rear ends as well as front disc. There 8" and 9" are a shoe in after resetting spring pads. Again mine is a 9" Granada. As for brake up grade I'd go with Maverick/Granada rotors and G.M. calipers. It's an easy mix and works fine. Personally I'd stay away from the explorer, that is unless your set on the rear disc. They will work on the Maverick/Granada rear housing and axles The Wizzard
Perfect Fit-McDonald, inc 2345 N. Ross Ave. Portland Ore. 97227 1-800-333-5858 I went to the ACME web sight. They have a full menu to navigate. However they stop at 1952 Ford. I remember that now. So I called them when I was building the 51 and they said "we had to stop somewhere, yes we can do that for you. Call them at 1-877-597-6079. The Wizzard
Photos from my trip to the wrecking yard. Lots of old cool cars. Most too damaged to do anything with. Lots of early and mid fifties Fords, but only 1949 and it was slim pickins. My helper (students were elsewhere) Found this one... Parts to a radio and some trim, but none I needed... Plenty of Rancheros/Falcons if I needed parts from them... I even took down a few door codes to look up when I had time.
The old gas in the tank and fuel lines has more than likely turned to varnish and you don't want that crap in your rebuilt Carb or fuel pump a radiator shop can boil out the tank for a reasonable price the lines should be replaced.Also if it had ethanol no lead gas that will turn into a nasty chalk like crud when it sits.
The Jalopy Journal
