Hi Flatordead Mike! Yes you were indeed that man - I was wondering when you would show up on here - great to hear from you and many thanks again for getting me all the parts I needed. Many thanks for the great information - I have heard of the Imbert system -the "Holzvergaser" intake you mentioned - are you saying it is the that part of the intake manifold which currently has the small plate bolted over it - in the photo it is visible close to the plug wire channel? I understand what you are saying about the high radiator and louvers - that caused me a lot of time for thought when I was setting up the current radiator/fan position - which seems to work well. Many thanks Cj
To me it *looks like* a 1944 or 1945 engine depending on how model years were done by Ford Germany at the time. 2 F 44 == 2 June 44 14 8 44 == 14 Aug 44 17 H 44 == 17 Aug 44 Fancy sending your '43 82 my way v300s? Mike kdf38 -==================-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Germans nationalized Ford- and GM-owned operations in the Reich and occupied territories upon declaring war on the US immediately after the attach on Pearl Harbor (if not before), ergo cutting off Detroit from their European subsidiaries. At least Ford didn't get the chance to send the technology to Germany to build Jeeps. It's also interesting to note that Ford was given the opportunity to buy the Volkswagen plant in Wolfsburg (my great uncle and aunt worked there during and after the war until their retirement in the '70s), but passed on it. My father had the misfortune of being born in eastern Germany in the late '20s: by 1944 he was old enough to be "cannon fodder" and given the choice in July of that year of either volunteering to be an officer candidate (which entailed a year's training before being assigned a commission and going to the front) or be drafted as a grunt infantryman and go to the Russian Front. Thankfully he chose officer training, which probably saved his life (and allowed me to be born). He was assigned to a motorized infantry unit that was billeted at various places in central Germany, including a stint repairing runways at one of the Luftwaffe's air bases for jet fighters while being carpet-bombed. Part of his training was to know how to drive and repair every piece of equipment from half-track/motorcycle Kettenkraftrads to King Tiger tanks. Rarely does he talk about his wartime experiences, but 35 years ago when we were in the throes of the Arab Oil Embargo he told me stories of having to cut down trees to fuel the Imbert units on the trucks and cars they drove, especially in the waning days of the conflict. He went on to emigrate to the US in the early '50s and operate maintenance-of-way equipment on the Union Pacific in the shadow of Big Boys and Streamliners, then decided to be a carpenter for the rest of his career.
Thanks Mike - you might have something there for sure - for what its worth I was told by the previous owner that it was the actual original 44 truck engine - i.e 1944 and from what Flatordead and yourself are saying I am now alot more confident that I have the right engine. The previous owner told me it was run with the wrong oil. As for the '43 Type 82 (31st May 1943 according to Wolfsburg) - in a moment of madness - I drove a round trip of 2500 miles from Ireland to (that indluded 4 boat journeys) to pull the kubel out of a hay shed in Austria. I am in the middle of restoring it at the moment - its pretty much original - original engine, chassis, body, suspension etc etc and I hope to keep as much of the original - with all the dents and bumps - as I can. I hope this winter I will get her back on the road. If I get the notion to sell I will let you know but right now all I can think about is getting her fired up and on the road. Yutan - to be fair to Henry, Ford stated that following the outbreak of war communication between the American office and the European subsidiaries was none existent. I think this has been challenged in the past as have the wartime treatment/pay of workers at the Ford plant Koln. Not entirely sure how that all panned out. Thanks Cj
Ford Germany was a full fledged factory, capable of making complete vehicles and not dependent on Ford USA to operate...so the Germans were able to use it without any necessary reference to Henry's thoughts. Other European Ford plants were just assembly plants, I think, not capable of making vehicles without considerable use of parts like engines from elsewhere. I think only Ford USA, Ford Canada, Ford England, and Ford Germany were able to produce flatheads on their own. Russians were building AA's and A-based jeeps with B engines, but I don't think they were actually part of the Ford empire. They bought the Ford tech starting in about 1930, bought the molds and such, and went to work on their own. B powered trucks were important in both the German army in BB's and in the Russian army in AA variants. Ford Japan was a non-player, because they were entirely an assembly plant and couldn't make anything once the war was on.
That would be my thought too, just a designation as a military design pather than the normal A, C, and T designations for car, commercial, and truck. Found my German parts books...I have 1935 and 1943. The '43 is not a full catalog, more a chart of mechanical parts usage and ID of the different models. I think 2 models of the 3000 seem to be in there...my German has left my head completely (I was bilingual as a child in Hamburg), and there's lots I can't figure out. I'll try to copy it (terrible, disintegrating wartime paper) for Flatordead and Truck guy if they bug me in a couple of weeks.
Hello, g29t engines were verry commonly used in the ford keulen ambulances round her i know 10 of them driving, all the same engines... In Holland the are popular to build "motorhomes"... some sites where you can see those keulens: http://www.fordkeulen.nl/ projects from all of us here (in dutch) http://www.gazetajoin.be/viewforum.php?f=46&sid=574994b478b05626f8d552411e202d13 and my homepage: www.partytruck.be a shop where you can find lots of german ford parts: http://home.kpn.nl/thedi000/ greetings hostekes
Love that alloy sump.if you can locate another,I would swap a new set of 24 stud finned alloy heads. Interested?
Dumb question Why would a German engine have a G ? German is an english name. Deutschland is the County. Not doubting your research just never heard of German in Deutschland. Always Deutsch like Koeln, Munchen etc which the English insist on calling Cologne and Munich. Usually only things made for Export carry the German designation. At least that is my understanding. Twas 300 years ago this year (1709)my ancestor moved from Germany to Ireland! of all places! Don
The G for Germany actually is probably rooted in two different things...USA law and Ford. Our laws starting somewhere in the late 19th century required imported items to be marked with country source. The USA was a big market, so this led to general worldwide marking of manufactured stuff in English. I have seen WWII military stuff even marked "Germany" in English. Note that local markings for Ford stuff, not affected by national marking rules, was in Geman, as in K for Koln. Ain't got no umlauts on my computer...how to do that?? Also, Ford Germany (and England) were not free standing companies at the beginning. They began as just assembly plants, and Ford Marked special parts as E or G...these then became the part designations for local design/manufacture stuff as they began to actually make things, and by the mid thirties both were making at least one line of car entirely based in England. Note that England is likely wrong too...they probably would have chosen GB or UK. Ford Germany became a full factory, able to make engines and complete vehicles, about '35-37.
I am constantly amazed at the amount of knowledge on here. This is just fascinating reading. Thanks for the learning.
I believe they have different part numbers because the heads were different right side vs. left side (at least on thr USA made motors between 1938 and 1942 (or sometime pre 1945)). These motors had 49 degree right side valve angles and left side 52 degree valve angles. Since the war bagan in 1941 it would make sense to me that Henry possibly used the same (or nearly the same) block castings in both countries. If the Germans took over his factories the blocks castings likely stayed the same. During re-assembly check that the correct head is on the correct side.
The late German mercs, produced in several variants into the 1950's, were G29, meaning 1942 design. Presumably this design was transferred in 1941 before declaration of war with us. This replaced the 1939 based 99's, just as in USA. The issue of Ford making stuff for the enemy is pretty much irrelevant...Ford Germany was a full fledged factory making engines and everything else by 1937, and was in Germany, so it was able to manufacture vehicles on its own. BB, 1937 type big trucks, and '40-42 based trucks were manufactured and used in WWII in Germany. All the flatheads had different valve angles and chamber volumes side to side, but Ford's use of different heads on engines without fundamental design asymmetries there varied a lot. I can check German catalog probably on that on the earlier 29's, but later ones got odd head designs that were different anyway due to changes in water outlets. Ford block designs were essentially the same in Germany and US until second version of the G29, which had a rear distributor off the top of oil pump drive.
OT. The colors white and blue are from the flag, but the symbol is very much a stylized rotating propeller.
That is correct. The origins of the BMW "spinning propeller" logo has been documented many times. Never messed with their cars, but had a shitpile of their motorcycles. BTW .. great thread.
If you're into de-coding German flathead parts and wonder what the "EB" logo means: EB stands for Eisenwerke Brühl, the foundry close to Cologne casting engine blocks and heads. They're still doing a lot of business for Ford of Germany: http://www.eb-bruehl.com/
Hmmm.... Someone should build a roadster with a German flathead and lots of iron crosses and swastikas!
One of the best technical threads on the site and you have to post this improper stuff, could you please do us all a favor and delete this non content so as not to cause a stir. Thank you.
If you're on a PC, click: start menu all programs accessories system tools character map All sorts of cool stuff there, fractions and whatnot. If you're on a Mac, I don't have a clue!
Here is my contribution, LTV KID. This one is powered by a V4 Wisconsin, 1 of 900. I have another Diesel powered, 1 of 75.
Great Thread and info! Lots of knowledgable guys here. And here I thought all you guys did was just built hot rods...
I am reluctant to post this picture for obvious reasons, but we're trying to find some information on it's history. We would like to understand why it was put there. The swastika shown here was found next to the front bumper bracket on a 1936 German Ford V8 2door convertible. I've never seen something like that on any car before. The vehicle was bought by a Jewish family in 1936, they emigrated to the UK in '37 where the vehicle remained within the family until she was recently exported to the US.
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