Register now to get rid of these ads!

German WWII Flathead?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by v3000s, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. v3000s
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 12

    v3000s
    Member

    Hi all - i need some help in identifying this flathead - its got the following numbers and lettering 9T .... 17H44 .... 6049 ....... EB .... stamped on it. Heads look German WWII Ford. any help much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  2. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Timing cover has G for Germany in PN prefix, G18 I think...heads, timing pin, rear drive look like late version of G29 engine, bur usual G prefixes elsewhere are lacking??
    I'm guessing that may mean postwar truck when Germany designation was unpopular in export marking?? The late version was made up to about 1955. Check our rep in Fisterwalde, Flatordead.
     
  3. draggin breath
    Joined: Feb 5, 2006
    Posts: 510

    draggin breath
    Member

    In the first pic the side of the block has a grey circle,like a heat tab;could it be? i've lead a sheltered life,but have never seen a flathead with studs,is this a german thing?
     
  4. 32ratsass
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 258

    32ratsass
    Member

    Thats way cool!!!!
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. LIMEY
    Joined: Nov 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,986

    LIMEY
    Member

    Looks like the aluminum sump the same as my later G29T.

    Where did you find it?

    Kev.
     
  6. MN Falcon
    Joined: May 21, 2007
    Posts: 566

    MN Falcon
    Member

    Most of the early (59AB and earlier) flatheads used studs.
     
  7. oilslinger53
    Joined: Apr 17, 2007
    Posts: 2,500

    oilslinger53
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from covina CA

    id think it would have to be pre, or post war. was ford supplying the enemy? i nknow he was an anti-semite, but to think that the state department would allow this? either way thats a cool find there
     
  8. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,720

    junk yard kid
    Member

    ford had a lot of factorys in germany, america paid him for the ones they bombed, where ford was building airplanes
     
  9. Silhouettes 57
    Joined: Dec 9, 2006
    Posts: 2,791

    Silhouettes 57
    Member

    This is a Flathead V8 powered 1935 French built Ford bus that I operated during my time stationed at General Depot in Kaiserslautern, Germany back in the mid sixties. It was a running son of a gun and I wish I had some better pictures. I would load it full up to the front with GI's and that old Ford did the job. I remember one time it popped a spark plug with a full load of guys aboard and it held out on 7 cylinders until I got unloaded and back to the motor pool where a new spark plug was installed, what a fun ride.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. That's pretty interesting!
     

  11. I would imagine that Ford has production facilities in germany before the war, political views aside.
     
  12. slepe67
    Joined: Jan 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,146

    slepe67
    Member

    I was stationed in both the UK and Germany, and in the UK, I learned that dear old Henry did build planes for the Germans, AND while in Germany, I learned the BMW slogan/symbol dates back from when the company started out, they built aeroplanes..hence the white propellars on their logo...
     
  13. The first Ford-Werke AG plant in Germany was built in Cologne in 1923, long before Nazism and Hitler appeared on the political stage. General Motors was there in the same time frame, when they acquired Adam Opel AG in 1929. Ford's relationship with Hitler was interesting, to say the least. Ford profited from both sides throughout the war.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Ford1.html

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000124/silverstein

    http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_06.htm

    Back to the engine in question...I wonder what interchangeability it has with North American Ford engines and/or cars/trucks???
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  14. Angels are far and few between!
     
  15. Elvisaurusrex
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 401

    Elvisaurusrex
    Member

    It'd go great in one of these..
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Ford did supply Hitler's war machine,from factories built pre WWII.:eek:
     
  17. v3000s
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 12

    v3000s
    Member

    The History of my Ford V3000S Truck

    My 1944 Ford V3000S was built at the Ford factory in Cologne, Germany in 1944 and was found abandoned and unscathed in May 1945, at the end of World War II in the Hutgen Forest on the German-Belgian border just southeast of Aachen. The Battle of Huertgen Forest (German: Schlacht im Hürtgenwald) is the name given to the series of fierce battles fought between U.S. and German forces during World War II in the Hürtgen Forest, which became the longest single battle the U.S. Army has ever fought in its history. The battles took place between September 19, 1944, and February 10, 1945, over barely 50 square miles (129 km²), east of the Belgian–German border.

    As to which unit of the German army my Ford was assigned to – I can only make an educated guess that it belonged to one of the German Divisions which fought in the battle of the Hurtgen Forest. Based on this assumption I have been able to narrow it down to either of the following Divisions - 3rd Fallschirmjäger-Division, 12th Volksgrenadier-Division, 47th Volksgrenadier-Division, 89th Infanterie-Division, 116th Panzer-Division, 272nd Volksgrenadier-Division, 275th Infanterie-Division, 344th Infanterie-Divisionor the 353rd Infanterie-Division.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  18. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,763

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    It's a post war engine as it has the "hump" in rear for the distributor.
    pre war don't have that "hump"(boss).
    i think It's a G29T.
     
  19. v3000s
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 12

    v3000s
    Member

    Hi
    Heres another few photographs of the engine .... any help much appreciated

    Many thanks
    Cj

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    At least some is wartime...all those "44"'s!
    G19W-6019, by the way, = German 1941 3 3/16 bore W number for frontcover. Don't recognize the "W"...were military parts so designated perhaps?? I've got a G 1944 parts book...will see if it has any info that would distinguish 19 and 29 blocks this weekend.
    If you find any more numbers, please post...the 6000 numbers are just Ford part numbers, but prefixes are meaningful.
    Ford of Germany was just an assembly operation for mostly British and US parts til about 1935, but after that they were a full fledged factory, casting engines and making complete vehicles, so they had full ability to make what they liked. I think the other continental plants may have all been just assembly plants.

    A site: http://www.jfijlr21.demon.co.uk/
     
  21. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    Ford used headbolts from 1909-1927, switched to studs and nuts from 28-48(59series), then back to headbolts from 48 8BA-53.
    Surprise.
     
  22. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    To clarify what I said on the PN...the "19" part of number means the design was introduced in 1941, not that it was built then. Number stayed the same til part changed significantly. There were also G 29's, 1942 design, not sure when actually introduced, and I think 99's as well from the inception of the 3 3/16 in 1939.
    Link is to a French built 3000.
    I read somewhere once, not sure if true, that when Germany went to war in '39 the army was largely equipped with Benz trucks and that they rapidly failed the test of war because their engines involved lots of selective fitting and hand scraped-to-fit bearings; as they wore, there was no way to fix them in an army operating far ahead of any machine shops and with freshly trained unexperienced mechanics. The Ford and Opel/Chevrolet trucks had fully interchangeable engine parts and factories capable of supplying vast quantities of spares, so that a draftee with two weeks of mechanics school could throw in whatever was needed right there on the frozen mud. They also had the benefit of interchangeability with the many thousands of British/Canadian/Indian army Fords encountered...
    Some early war German trucks were early BB's with four cylinders, made looong after 1934 there and interchangeable with the Russian AA/BB mixed trucks.
     
  23. v3000s
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 12

    v3000s
    Member

    Hi Bruce

    Many thanks for the information - that is truely fascinating information for me. Are you saying then that I could have the original 1944 Ford engine then for the truck? anything with the 44 marking on it may be a year of manufacture designation? Is there anywhere else specifically I should be looking on the engine/parts for numbers? markings? I have the water pumps removed - maybe they can tell me something?

    Many thanks again
    Cj
     
  24. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Post any cast or stamped numbers you find. I have no idea when the block design cahnged for rear distributor drive...maybe my parts book will tell me.
    The numbers with "44" must surely be casting date marks...Ford did not designate design date that way, but with the little codes as used as prefix in part numbers.

    Soooo...G=Germany, 19=1 for 1941 design, 9=bigger flathead (221 would be 1 in this position, four cylinder 2). The W is vehicle type designation...don't know this, suspect it is just wehr something to designate military specification. Next numbers, 6049/6050 are the L and R heads, same base number used on ALL Fords everywhere, any letters after that indicate minor design change and/or variations like color...

    Will try to find German '44 parts book, perhaps get you my secret book hunting tips as long as you promise not to poach any '28-32 books! Contact me in a week or two; I am stressed out right now, might be able to copy the parts book if it is applicable to your truck.
    Note thet the French truch has the front distributor.
     
  25. v3000s
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 12

    v3000s
    Member

    Bruce - many thanks for that - all sounds great - will check back with you on this for sure. In the mean time I will have a good look round the engine and grab pics of anything that might be of interest.

    Cj
     
  26. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,788

    banjorear
    Member

    It was well know that Henry liked to two time his wife, but two timing the US during times of war?

    That prick! :)
     
  27. This engine is 1939 to at least 1947. Has the alu pan with the Bosch starter, rear Bosch distributor. The block seems to be G19TS produced from 1941 on, the heads are G99T (easy to spot with the rear water hump). They where largely used until Summer 1952 when the reworked G29T engine went into production.
    I would date that engine around 1941 to 45 at least because of the "Holzvergaser" intake.
    The Holzvergaser was made by the IMBERT company to overcome Germanys shortage on gasoline during the second half of war. This was a special system to burn wood in a kind of stove and produce a gas (like propane) and run the engine with it. Pretty wierd thing, hard to understand for non germans. I think it was not used somewhere else.
    Anyway the big exaust port in the intake was blocked and then the engine was run with regular gas again.

    BTW " I finally learned via my new friends in the European hot roding community of a hotrod mechanic based just outside of Berlin, Germany" ..........that was me, Colm

    http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/f/39forV8Imbert.jpg

    http://www.energyprofi.com/jo/images/stories/bioenergien/14_holzvergaser_lkw_1944.jpg

    www.technikmuseum-online.de/.../imbert.htm
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
  28. One thing more, your hood indicates that you have a high mounted fan, that means your truck is originally equipped G39T engine (2 belts, fan not crank mounted) build from 1943 on.
    The spare engine you have has a pulley that is for a crank mounted fan. So your engine seems to be pre 1943, a V3000 truck with regular non louvered hood and low radiator.
    Adding this to all the other facts, you look at a 1939-43 engine. If you measure the bore, you can tell if its 3,6Ltr or 3,9Ltr. The 3,9Ltr was introduced in 1941.
     
  29. hot rod pro
    Joined: Jun 1, 2005
    Posts: 2,706

    hot rod pro
    Member
    from spring tx.

    the back of the block looks like a french flathead,with that big boss on the drivers side rear.

    -danny
     
  30. LIMEY
    Joined: Nov 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,986

    LIMEY
    Member

    The French one does have a boss but for a govenor the German boss is simular but house's the distributor.

    G29T
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.