The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 2Loose, Nov 19, 2009.
Man that thing is Hidiouslyawesome 4dr
I LOVE IT !!!
Us Haaa-Why-Enns some stupid I guess, when I said I wanna drive my gasser to Bonneville, I get folks telling me not the right kinda ride to take to "Speed Week"....
I kinda was figgurin' on takin' in both Hot August Nites in Reno and Speed Week, ya just wouldn't think these days folks have categories of kind of cars that can go to what event. Must be young folks who's brains haven't figured out what's really important as yet.....
Drivin' a '55 chevy 4dr blown Olds powered gasser from Hawaii to both events? What's wrong with that?
Gotta have one more adventure before it's all over....
Sounds like a great trip to me. I've done both in our '33. I'd love to do the Father's Day run on Hawaii some day, maybe with the '37 when completed. That life line isn't getting any longer........go for it!!
Got kinda sidetracked by a bunch of other projects, still have to finish off those rear fender well lips I raised and widened, and am slowly working on finishing up the mini-tubs on the '55 hardtop project....
But decided I needed to fix up my '58 pro street truck to tow the gasser to the track, with the slicks, floor jack and tools in the truck, so needed to fab and install a hitch receiver to the '58, which I finished yesterday and did a trial run with the gasser attached, mission accomplished....
LINK to more pix....
LINK to the gasser home page....
I visited your beautiful state, but was on Oahu late last year... I was surprised that there were so many people with old cars and hot rods. I wish we could have island hopped to come over and see you and that island, it sure would have been cool to see the 55 in action! You are doing a great job, keep it up
Thanks, it's been a fun project, still is, but I need it finished as there are a couple others I want to put more time in on. Particularly my '61 FL chop, it's been parked way too many years, and I want to put it back on the road. Have other bikes to ride, but that one was always my favorite:
Spent yesterday working on setting up a second third member for the track, thinking I'd have one for just cruising around, and a second one I could stick in for best performance at the track a couple times a year. Hauled out my spare third members and my spare R&P sets and found a couple of things....
The setup in the car now is a Currie 9+ with a Daytona style pinion setup, a 1350 pinion yoke, a Detroit Locker and 3.00 gears, which seemed just right with the Doug Nash 3.28 low gear ratio, and the 28" cheater slicks I've been running lately on the street.
But I got carried away and bought a pair of 33" tall MT slicks, and had to widen and raise the "lips" on the rear fender well opening to accomodate those tires. That's mostly done now, still a little more body work to cherry that out, but needed a far different set of rear gears to get the most out of those tires.....
So one "spare" third member setup I had was 31 spline, I need 35 spline, but it had the 4.11 gear set I want to try. OK, pull it apart.
The next "spare" had 4.56 gears on it, too much I think, am liking the 4.11's more and more as I think about it...., but it had a 35 spline spool I wanted to use, so pulled it apart.
The third "spare" has the Daytona style pinion support with the 1350 U-joint yoke that I need, so pulled it apart, and it is getting the 4.11 gears and the spool stuffed back into it. Am putting that back together today and back in the car for a test run with the slicks, see how it feels....
The new Hoosier street tires I bought to get a taller profile in the rear look great, but do not look much bigger then the 28" tall cheater slicks I've been running, even though they are advertised as 31" tall. I took the car out with the Hoosiers on and with a GPS unit, clocked it at exactly 2,000 rpm on the road in 5th gear, or 1:1 ratio. 3.00 rear gear ratio. GPS clocked it at a steady 54 mph. On my excel spreadsheet that back calcs to a 27" tall effective rolling diameter! That's quite a ways off from the advertised 31"!
That makes me think about the advertised 33" tall slicks! How much less than that 33" is the actual effective rolling diameter off the line? 31"? 29"? It has quite an effect on what gears I should actually use to try to get the most out of those tires! And how much will it grow in effective rolling diameter with speed further down the track?
The calcs say that with the 4.56 gear set, at 33" tall I should be just rolling through the lights at 6,000 rpm at 128 mph (If I have the hp to do it....), but if the actual effective diameter is a lot less, then I need more gear (smaller number), like a 4.33 or a 4.11. I have both, but decided to play it safe, and set up the 4.11 for this first go round with these new tires.
Ran the spreadsheet for a bunch of possible tire diameters with the 4.11 gears, using six possibles from 28" to 33", with these results for 6,000 rpm in top gear:
I think the speed I need to try for is about 125, I figured the approx. rpm for that speed for each effective tire diameter:
So looking at these range of possibilities, I decided on the 4.11 gear set as the best choice for this first go round. Now I just have to hook up solidly, shift expertly, and make the horsepower!!! A challenge at age 71, but I figure I'm up to it!
The next race is this Saturday, the 20th, and that day is also my local MC club's annual ride to the far end of the island, Hana, for the annual Taro Festival. We do it every year, and I wouldn't miss it!
So plan on having the car set up to go to the track, do the ride leaving my house at 7 am, and come back early, about 2 pm, and head down to the track. Did that last year and it was good, let's see if I can pull that off again this year!
Got the 4.11's assembled with the Daytona pinion support and the 1350 yoke, got it in and running, but had two rigs at the shop, so hooked up the tow bar and pulled it home! Problem: That spool in the diff only wants to go straight! Knew that, but honestly thought it would still tow ok if I went slow. 15 miles from the shop to my house, it all went ok, although a little iffy on hard turns, until the last mile. There is a steep downhill right hand turn just before my street, and the '55 went straight while my tow rig went right, couldn't stop it, jack knifed it right in the middle of the turn! Locked up the right front fender of the '55 against the right rear of the tow rig, lucky it wasn't my '58 truck I was towing with! The tow bar and the hitch were unaffected! Glad I built 'em stout! A buddy passing by in his big 4x4 truck, hooked up a chain to the rear of the '55, and pulled me back out straight, and I was able to tow the last mile home! No mechanical damage, but now I have some sheet metal damage to straighten out on both rigs!
Lucky I was only going about 10 mph on that turn or it would have been a lot worse! And there were no other cars there at that moment! Cops showed up too, but once they figured out it was really a "single car incident" (meaning nobody else was involved, just this idiot towing this race car....) and nobody was injured, they let it go....
Yeah, I love an adventure, but....
You should get a set of towing hubs to bolt to your rear axles. then you can use your street tires to flat tow your car around.
I am not familiar with those, I'd guess somewhat like the "free-lock" hubs I've used on the front of 4x4 rigs? Can you advise a brand or source?
Thanks for the comment!
Edit: Think I found a pair, thanks for the idea....
Have decided against trying the tow hubs, with the 3" long rear wheel studs there just is not much room there to make that work.
After the "incident" flat towing the gasser with the spool in the differential, I pulled it apart and put it back together with the 4.11 gears and a Detroit Locker, that will make it much easier to tow, and to drive to the track if I want on street tires, with my buddy hauling the slicks and jack down for me....
I was going very slow when I jack-knifed the gasser, so the damage was pretty minimal compared to what it could have been:
LINK to more pix....
Have been hammering on it, it is coming along, but will leave it at some point, it sorta fits into the rest of the theme for "Patches"....
The supposedly 31" tall Hoosiers I got have turned out to be actually 30.5" in diameter, unloaded. Under load the actual rolling diameter (figuring the radius to the ground from the center of the axle, and doubling it) turns out to be 27.8", so my plan to have some tall street tires which would allow me to run some steep gears that I could leave in for both the street and the track (33" tall MT's, according to the specs....), and not have to change rear gears just for the track.
The Hoosiers look good, but are just too short for what I wanted to do:
LINK to more pix....
All the taller tires I looked at are for off road stuff, would look ridiculous on this car....
Anybody know of any good looking 33" tall street tires, 15" or 16", that would fit on a 10" to 12" wide rim???
Ran the MT slicks down the road a bit, had 17 psi in the tires, got 66 mph at 2,500 rpm with 3.50 rear gears, trans was in 5th at 1:1. That calcs to a 31" effective rolling diameter. Will be using that in my calcs for the quarter mile at the track.
LINK to more pix....
I am hopin' it'll hold together and push hard enough to go through the lites at about 125, which should get me into the mid to low 11's, let's see....
Here's the latest page outta the spreadsheet machine....
First three data sets show my Hoosiers running the current 3.50 gear set, and also 3.00 and 4.11. Then there are three data sets showing the MT's with 3.50, 4.11 and 4.33 gear sets. I'm thinking the 4.11 is probably the best one to try at our next track event, May 24-26, our annual 3 day event for Memorial Day....
I've highlited in red that data set, with the speed I hope to achieve running through the lites, assuming I can pull off a good launch, hit my shifts cleanly, not lose traction anywhere, and the motor, tranny and rear end all hold together! Remember, this is a 46 year old motor, even if there are a lot of new parts in it....
(AND, driven by a 71 year old "lolo".....)
Maybe it needs an "eyepatch" over the missing headlight? My grandkids think it looks like a pirate....
Wonder how much air pressure I should run in those MT race tires? At 17 psi yesterday I ran it up to 100, and it felt a little "wobbly" in the rear, am thinking up it to 20 psi. After all, it weighs 4,000 lbs with me in it, might need a little more air pressure with those tall sidewalls....
Since this weekend was our annual Maui Raceway Park 4 day Memorial event, I put the race tires on and drove down to the track on Thursday for some test and tune runs....
I got 5 runs in, and only two were any good, the 2nd and 4th, my launching and stick shifting expertise under race conditions is very "iffy"......
And that rear end feels somewhat loose, sort of 'wallows' all the way down the track, but not on every run, have not figured that out yet. It scared me on the last run, it seemed like it was getting out of control, so I backed off....
Am guessing that it is the quite tall sidewalls on the race tires, swaying from side to side, with that 4,000 lb car resisting the acceleration!
Started at 17 lbs in the Mickey's, and upped it to 20, that seemed to help slightly, and it seemed to hook up good on every run....
As we had a lot of off island competition here, came over from Kauai, Oahu and Hawaii for our annual event, and watching the runs during T&T, saw a lot of very consistent cars running very tight times!!! So decided to take my very inconsistent launch and shifting capabilities over to the spectator's side with a couple of cold beers and watch the action for the weekend! It was a lot of fun with some very tight racing, these guys run the numbers, wins being decided by the merest fractions of seconds! Way out of my league with my 48 year old motor and 71 year old driver on a stick shift and no electronics !!!
Times: 0.500 sportsman light:
Best T&T time slip is the #4 run:
93.50 1/8 speed
109.07 1000' speed
117.28 1/4 speed
2nd best (#2) was very similar with
93.07 1/8 speed
108.69 1000' speed
116.02 1/4 speed
Not bad really, if I could just get consistent every time!
And improve my cut on the light!
Could it be the big front tires affecting the handling or feel of the car through the steering wheel? Just thinking out loud. Maybe you could borrow a fellow racers skinny front wheels for a pass or 2 and see if it feels any different. I am assuming all your rear suspension bushings etc are in good shape.
That's a thought, might try that. The problem with the front is the axle I have came with updated, and fairly new, GM disk brakes but with the old Ford 5 on 5-1/2" bolt pattern. I had these 15 x 8" rims in that bolt pattern so went ahead and used them. Should have just changed the rotors out for the 5 on 4-3/4" to make them the same as the rear, and I have a pair of older real narrow TT-D wheels in 15" I could use! But I have a pair of steel oem 15" Ford rims with the big Ford bolt pattern in 5-1/2" width I could use with some fairly narrow tires. They are the real old style with the riveted center section, I could drill out the rivets, reverse the center section, and weld it up, like I used to do back in the late 50's, love those old style reversed steel rims with baby moons!
So need to make a choice, reverse the old steels and run them, or swap out the rotors and run the narrow TT-D's
Next race isn't until July so have some time....
Yesterday I pulled the slicks off and put the Hoosiers back on for the street. Found that the 1/2" rear wheel studs were all slightly bent! Clockwise direction on the driver's side and counter-clockwise on the passenger's side! Slicks were on steel wheels with acorn nuts, all properly tightened! Go figure! The last run it just did not feel right so I shut 'er down 2/3 down the track!
The axles are 35 spline Moser Engineering, with the 1/2" studs red "lock-tightened" in place! The Hoosiers are mounted on a pair of alloy rims using shank style lug nuts, they tightened up ok and the studs seemed to straighten out as I carefully tightened them up. But I don't like the fact that they bent at all, something not right about that! I probably should pull the axles and check it out, and replace those studs with new ones instead of leaving the "bent" ones in there!
Damm, bent wheel studs! Scary!
Am thinking the acorn nuts bottomed out before the rims got really tight! Then there was some movement on the wheels at high speed. Also the launch in low was hard, with loose nuts the studs bent!
New studs, and grind the nose off the acorns to make sure they seat tight on the steel rims....
That thing looks tough as hell with the new rear rims. Sorry bout the fender. You should call it a "Zombie Gasser" now
I think I'm gonna have to do some tire swapping, put the slicks on a set of mag style rims with shank bolts for use at the drags, and put some huge by fat by super ugly tires to try to match the looks of the slicks on the black steel wheels and run those in the street! I still need to finish up the rear wheel well openings I raised and widened, keep getting side tracked by other projects....
As the front hubs on the solid axle are the old ford style 5 on 5-1/2", and I have an original set of ford f1 truck rims that are 5-1/2" wide, I can paint them flat black also and run some skinnies up front on the street. Then have the wife sew up a pirate eye patch for the busted "eye" and tie that on....
Maybe I should change the plates to read "pirate"?
Naww, a pirate named "patches" is pretty good already....
Was reading over in an Olds performance forum, a guy running a motor very similar to mine, runs 12 lbs boost with race gas at the track, then detunes with slower blower pulleys for the street, runs low tens in a car about the same weight as mine. I'm running 7 lbs now, and I can get the pulleys easy to up my boost, and put in a second, small fuel cell just for the race gas? Might be fun to do, and have some honest ten second time slips to show....
Several of my heavy racing buddies have 55 gal drums of race fuel, said they'd sell me 5 gals at a time, might be doable....
Just day dreamin at this point....
Not much to update here. Am traveling on the mainland visiting family. Wanted to bring the car over and drive to Bonnieville. But money or lack of prevented that. Too bad, would have been a lot of fun! Been driving it all over Maui though,, love driving that car, when just cruising I've got it tuned to around 20 MPG, but hit the boost, and it sounds like a toilet flushing! The rear U joint has started growling when over 60 mph, gotta replace that now. The 4.11 gears are a little bit much for the street, 3.50's would be better, but the 4.11 gears are perfect for the strip. Missed the July race night, but I'll be there in August and try to shoot some vids!
Well, I missed the August races!
Had a bad vibration somewhere in the rear portion of the driveline! It was speed related, at 60, in neutral, coasting with the motor off it was still there, and running in gear it was gas pedal sensitive, more gas, less gas wasn't as bad, but find that "middle" spot with the gas pedal and it felt like things were coming apart. I was pretty convinced it was a U-joint!
So changed out the u-joints, old ones looked good, but the vibration was still there, so that wasn't it. Had a "spare" third member for the 9" rear, with a detroit locker and 3.50 gears, a better fit actually, then the 4.11's, for the street with the low gears in the Doug Nash tranny (3.28 first gear), so swapped that in, and nope, the vibration is still there!
So it is in the rear portion of the Doug Nash 4+1! Gotta pull that and split it, see where the noise is coming from! Dang I hate to do that, it's heavy, will end up bench pressing it to get it out, and at 71 I ain't quite as good at that as I once was! Well, the tranny is old, never has been apart, probably a good time to see what the insides look like! Will post some pix on what I find....
But I'm also pretty sure that if I'd tried to do some fast passes at the track, I'd of scattered that tranny, the noise and vibration are that bad!
Oh, and to Ryan, I do like the "new" setup here on the HAMB, way cool....
How are the driveline angles Willy? Had vibration in my Austin gasser and adjusted my pinion angle a couple degrees and it all went away.
X2 on this point. Before pulling the transmission, I would re-check angle to eliminate it as a question.
Yes, I did have that problem initially, had to adjust the ladder bars to put the rear end up a bit, it was too far down, that got rid of that noise. This one has been building up a little at a time for quite awhile. I suspected the tranny, but was hoping I could cure it with U-joint or rear end change-outs. When I set up the 4.11 rear end, I squeezed down the side adjusters on the main carrier bearings pretty hard, was worried I had overloaded those and they were going out and making noise, but they were fine. The 3.50 rear I know was running quiet the last time I pulled it out, and putting that back in, which I like better on the street anyway, did nothing to change that noise. I'm pretty sure it is in the tranny, I was just hoping for an easier fix. It's not bad just driving it around the local area where I live, never get over 45 and never should really "hit it" here, too much traffic and too many people out on the streets, so I just cruise it. Have work to do on my '55 4x4 truck and my '58 pro street truck, will finish those first then pull the tranny. Will post what I find. I have some ideas what it is.
That tranny sat on the shelf for a long time with no oil in it. And it was really hard to get into first gear when initially running it. Actually would not go into first for a week or so, but it eventually loosened up and started going in. I'd bet something was not right in that first gear set, which is in the rear of the DN case, and something eventually came loose and got into the bearings. Could be rust. I'll find it and fix it.
Haven't posted for awhile, as been working on other projects, like my '55 hardtop, but been driving the gasser around just in my neighborhood, taking it easy, hoping the tranny will hold until I can get to it, but I was not lucky! It went south with a lot of noise in 2nd gear!
Yeah, I did hit the loud pedal and pop the clutch when I shoulda been a lil more "relaxed" about it, but still, I wasn't doing that much to it, it shoulda held....
Pulled it apart, and second gear was gone! The counter shaft gear has NO teeth, all gone! The main shaft gear has about half the teeth gone! I'm having problems with my photo posting for some reason, will post pix as soon as I can!
The two main bearings on the main shaft are noisy, and the three big bearings on the counter shaft are noisy, and the local bearing house had them in stock! I've talked to Richmond Gear and they need the serial number off my Doug Nash "4+1" to see if it is a "newer" model, if so, their 5 sp street tranny parts will work! I only need the 2nd gear set, the rest are good to go....
Bummer Willy! Glad the damage wasn't a total loss though!
Just found out from Richmond Gear that my Doug Nash is the later model, and the RG Street 5 speed parts will fit! So ordered the matching 2nd gear set and all new synchro rings, also the spring loaded detent keys inside the sliders that "click" back into neutral (not completely necessary, have sometimes left them out on past 4 speed rebuilds w no adverse effects), and the bill is $660. Add to that the $250 I spent at the bearing house, and this is nearly a thousand dollar repair job, good thing I ain't payin' that worthless mechanic anything more then beer and peanuts....
Finally got my tranny tear down pix posted to my website, there are a whole bunch of 'em, as I wanted to record how it is so I can get 'er back together again in the right order....
Here's some of them:
This tranny was built sometime in the 80's...
When I split 'er open, this was what I found, with lots of loose teeth in the bottom of the case, and many small pieces in some of the bearings....
Pulled the mainshaft out first and took it apart. The main bearings at the front and back had metal in them, and were noisy after I cleaned them thoroughly and spun them by hand, so replaced them. My local bearing house had them in stock.
The gears, other than 2nd, all look great, as do the synchronizer rings (brass) and the needle bearings under each mainshaft gear....
Each slider, and the receiver it slides on, has three spring loaded detent keys that give a positive feel to the neutral position for each slider, they were broken in this 5-rev slider above, and in the 3-4 slider. The keys in the 1-2 slider were good. I don't know why these broke.
Here's the 3-4 slider and the broken keys. Later I found the missing pieces mixed in with all the broken teeth....
Here's all the mainshaft pieces laid out in order so I can put 'em back together again....
Then washed up the countershaft and started taking it apart....
The main bearings on both ends, and that needle bearing in the middle, are noisy, so are being replaced. Again, I was able to obtain them locally....
Then I had to pull the reverse idler gear stub shaft and check it all out....
It's all good, but decided to replace those needle bearings anyway, just to be safe....
Richmond Gear said that I have the later model Doug Nash 4+1 (from the serial # stamped on the case), and a pair of 2nd gears are on the way from them....
It actually was fun taking this apart. Hope I can say that again when I get it all back together....
LINK to the Doug Nash Tranny Rebuild Page 1
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