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G28T, German Four Banger

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by OHV DeLuxe, May 12, 2007.

  1. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    Hi, i finally scored a nice G28T engine last week that i`ve been waiting for for 8 years.., and liked what i saw right away. Many guys here have heard about these i`m sure, but not all have seen these in real life since they`re eurpean engines.
    I know these have been covered in different ways here on hamb, but i`ve never seen good pictures of the differences between Model B engine and the G28T.
    So i thought this might be interresting.
    According to what i`ve found out, these were made from 42-59 for different german installations.
    This engine in particular, had an easy life as a stationary engine for a saw on a farm only a mile away from my house.
    These engines have some very interresting modern touches done to them when made in Germany.
    The differences that are obvious are the following:

    -Beefier rods.
    -Insert bearings all the way.
    -Pressurized oil for rod bearings.
    -Different main oiline, not using the regular one behind sidecover.
    -Single oilslinger.
    -Nice rear seal.
    -Main bearing bolts not exiting the block by outer cylinder walls.
    -Nice modern looking aluminum pistons.
    -Aluminum cam gear.
    -Nice Aluminum oilpan.
    -Mine also came with mint Scintilla Vertex magneto.:D

    What i also noticed was major core shift during casting prosses.
    No problem on this one but might be on others.
     

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  2. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    ...
     

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  3. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    ......
     

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  4. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 3,395

    Mart
    Member

    That's pretty interesting, for a moment I thought you were referring to the V8, but a 4 with insert bearings has to be cool. I have the German flatty V8 in my 40 coupe.
    Mart.
     
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  5. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    Yeah i thought it might be interresting to the banger guys, regarding the modifications done from factory..
     
  6. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    :)........
     

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  7. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,589

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool. I just scored a shop manual for those, in German, naturally. All the German has leaked out of my head, but I'm picking through it.
    The Danish Model A club site has some good info on those. If you ever find a head for one of those with a "G" at the end of the number (they all have G for German at the beginning, of course), I'll give it a good home...
     
  8. peanut
    Joined: Mar 16, 2005
    Posts: 489

    peanut
    Member

    so are these things hard to find across the pond???
     
  9. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    Well they`re not very easy to find, but they show up every now and then.. Actually i have another one on the way into stock:D , but hard to tell the timespand on that deal... norwegians has all the time in the world it seems...:)
    Any chance to get a nice copy of the manual made? That would be interresting...
     
  10. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,991

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Excellent photos. I've heard about these engines but never seen such details photos as these before. The manufacturers certainly seem to have addressed a lot of the usual issues that surround stock bangers.

    I'd certainly be interested in one of those if there was one going 'spare'.
     
  11. Jalopy Banger
    Joined: Aug 5, 2002
    Posts: 373

    Jalopy Banger
    Member
    from Sweden

    I have the manual for G28T together with the G39T/G29T information somewere. The problem is that i don't know in what box. I have recently moved You see, but this is a file i have in my computer from that papermanual.
     

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  12. Jalopy Banger
    Joined: Aug 5, 2002
    Posts: 373

    Jalopy Banger
    Member
    from Sweden

  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,589

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thar sounds like what I have, four and eight cylinder trucks (basically 1940 Ford heavy trucks) together, book fron about 1953 or so. Took a lot of hunting to find that and the German parts books. Lots of very long words in there to figure out, too.
     
  14. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    Souns great... i`m sure some of the german guys here will be willing to help you with translation..

    How many here has one of these engines?

    I found these in a box, and thought they should be interresting to use in the G28T... Real 30`s HAL rods.... :D

    A cool thing about these rods is thet they`re 2 inch in the big end, they have been polished once, and are four bolt...
     

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  15. WHAT!!

    First you find a G28t, then you go and really rub our noses in it with the HAL rods:eek: !! Jeez, what's next, a Miller?

    Guess you won't be needing those mundane insert rods. Be glad to take them off your hands.:D
     
  16. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member

    Won't work unless you have a G28 (--or a Hal) crank will it?




    I do. Also, just curious, what do we do when we need to replace the inserts?

     
  17. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,589

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I heard somewhere (Danish Model A people? Antipodeans?) that G 28 parts are utterly unavailable...
    They were used on a lot of exported 1950's farm equipment and on a truck line that lasted into the '50's, so I would think someone would have bits, but only on other continents...how does one search rural equipment dealers in New Zealand?
    Does our man in Finsterwalde have or know anything? I remember his pictures of his huge stock of Ford Germany parts.
    Germans don't seem to keep old stuff in service to any extent. I last lived there circa 1970, and I don't think I ever saw a German Ford truck of the G28 or G 29 type. I certainly would have noticed the basic '40 truck look instantly!
     
  18. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,991

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...


    Couldn't you convert them to babbitt? :D :D :D
     
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  19. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member

    Hey, now THERE'S a thought!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Actually the insert shells can be re-babbitted at some point but after owning one of those blocks, I no longer see the value. I personally think the G28Ts are over-rated based on what we know how to do on B bangers these days.

    Jus' my 2 cents tho.....

     
  20. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    Well looks like i will have to get the bearings re-babbitted, since they`re kinda hard to find.. but i`ve talked to a few people about these "problems" and i have the choice between rebabbiting the shells the old fashioned way, or get the shells thermally spray coated, doesn`t sound like much problem when talking to either of these guys.. But will be interresting..:D
    Once that is done i think the engine is very interresting... and has a lot of those common mods allready built in it....
     
  21. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member


    The thermal spray coating is interesting. I had never heard of this. What are they saying it will (re)build up to?

    Also, if you don't care to talk about this, what do you feel your engine is worth $$-wise? Basically in American dollars.

     
  22. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    Yeah, i think the thermal spray coating sounds interresting.. Sounds like that method makes the metals bite better to the shells.. if that makes any sense..:eek:
    Regarding value, i feel that`s hard to answer, but they are interresting and worth a little work to the people who are into these strange things..
    But imo you get a few things for free with these engines.
     
  23. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,403

    97
    Member


    Don't worry , there's plenty of us here researching them constantly, unfortunately machinery in NZ tends to get used forever .
    I have seen maybe a dozen still being used, one in an unused machine and one in a local rodder's pickup truck, www.macsspeed.com in 20 plus years of looking.
     
  24. Jalopy Banger
    Joined: Aug 5, 2002
    Posts: 373

    Jalopy Banger
    Member
    from Sweden

    Write a pollite email to Ford.de in Germany and ask them if they know anything about existing dealers in Europe. I made that for my G29T and found some good old spare parts dealers in Netherland.
     
  25. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member

    We had about $2700 each in ours when they got here to the states. Several of us went in together and bought four that were new that were to be used in the forestry service with pumps attached.

    As I look at what they are, I do not see the value in them. Let's say that I want to duplicate what it is, I can purchase a B block with a CW crank all day long for $500 - $800. Brand new inserted rods will retail at about $450 and I can grind the crank and insert the block for $500.00. The pistons are too heavy IMO and the rings are useless from sitting that long. The camshaft is kinda outdated as far as the grind is concerned, and if I am going to build something for even slight performance, then I am going to use O/S valves and a better head. I could go on but I think you see the path I am going.

    Bottom line IMO is that for $300-$400 less, I can build what I feel is an equal quality engine yet have the serviceability later on. Naturally others resources and etc. may dictate different opinions regarding them.

     
  26. chrisman
    Joined: Jun 13, 2002
    Posts: 716

    chrisman
    Member

    This is what I heard from another source, so I can't tell how true it is:

    Someone apparently used SBC bearings for the crank and doubled them, placed next to each other.
     
  27. cruiserbuddy
    Joined: Oct 21, 2005
    Posts: 396

    cruiserbuddy
    Member
    from Germany

    I scanned the complete G29/G39T/G28T manual in and have it on CD, if anyone is interested. Also can help You with translation.
    I found my G29T V8 block in a barn in my neighborhood, after cruisin through half of Germany. It was originally packed in a wooden box for the German army. New Oilpump, waterpumps and new camshaft were packed in waxed paper......Plus a used spare engine I paid 1000.-Euros/1400$(?) for it. They said, Ford used a better material for the block....
     
  28. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member

    Are you saying on a G28, --or on a standard Model B engine?

    I do inserts just as you mentioned on regular Model A/B engines but the G28 block is line-bored too large to install Chevy rod bearings.



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


     
  29. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,589

    Bruce Lancaster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Brent, I don't remember my Chevy rod sizes, so can't remember whether small or large are the ones for this...but if the small are right, the Grumpy Jenkins piggyback he used on mains would likely work.
    See Jenkin's second book on hopping Chevies...he was by this time period using large main blocks with small main cranks in early pro stockers. He simply fitted a set of large mains, align bored and notchedem, and put the small bearings into the the large--this on VERY fast darg cars. I don't see why same approach wouldn't work with the Chevy rod bearings...I think size step is about the same. I'd add a pin into block out of general paranoia...
     
  30. chrisman
    Joined: Jun 13, 2002
    Posts: 716

    chrisman
    Member

    It was something that came up during a G28 discussion, I can investigate further if you want.
     

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