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Technical Fuel School. High Octane Alternatives

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lothiandon1940, May 30, 2016.

  1. I have a station that sells CAM2 at the pump, around $10+ change a gallon, but I believe is 104 octane. Local speed shop, the cheapest they have is a VP 101 for $70 a 5-gallon can. Back in the stock car days I used to buy gas off the truck from a Beech Craft hanger, 100LL and it was as good as what was sold at the track. There are a few stations around with a Sunoco 260GT pump, but a bit out of the way.
     
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  2. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Beaner you are correct about the water/alcohol injection. If properly set up it will deliver most go juice at low vacuum WOT and none in high vacuum cruise conditions. That is why you can't just plumb a jug of water to your intake manifold.

    As far as gasohol goes Al Gore admitted last year that he only pushed it in hopes of getting the farm vote in the 2000 election. He knew at the time it didn't work and was a complete waste of time and money. If not for him it would never have passed. Yes this is the same guy who has made billions out of Global Warming excuse me Climate Change.
     
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  3. What a lot of people don't understand is that when you water or methanol spray one it does not boost the octane it cools the combustion chamber. If you could keep your hot mill cool enough it would run just fine on panther piss, uh pump gas.
     
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  4. That's right!
    Octane is the ability to resist combustion. Increasing the ability to resist combustion is octane booster
     
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  5. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,377

    indyjps
    Member

    I've got a 5 gallon jug of toluene, part of a package buy at a body shop auction. Has about 8 skull and crossbones painted on it and warnings everywhere. Used it to soften undercoating, works great, melted my rubber gloves and 5 minutes in, I started to smell it thru a new respirator.
    I got the hell outta there, showered and left the shop open all night with fans.
    Nasty stuff.
     
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  6. I tend to avoid most chemicals these days, toluene is high on my fuck-it list. I know one guy that owns a machine shop, he loved MEK and almost swims in it when he de-greases parts. I tell him there are better alternatives... all I hear is crickets.
     
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  7. Methy-Ethyl-Ketone..............The words alone don't even sound safe!!!!:eek:
     
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  8. So I stopped and bought a quart of Race Gas octane booster at my local speed shop yesterday on the way home. Ran me $29, they had Torco for $25 but the Race Gas was what the counter guy recommended. I can find that at Amazon in 6-packs at a better price. With close to 20 gallons of gas, it brought my gas from a 93 to about a 97 octane and I can feel the difference.
     
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  9. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    I use VP gas in my race bikes...I just bought a five gallon pail of C12, 108 MOT octane, leaded, 80 bucks..And that's a decent price..VP's least expensive higher octane fuel is about 70 bucks for five gallons..
    Local airport will sell me only 5 gallons at a time of LL100 without a tail number..
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  10. You're lucky to buy AV Gas at all, they monitor the local airports really close here.

    I got a farmer friend that buys some pretty potent fuel, like 108 for about 7 bucks a gallon. he knows a loophole and it is off road so he doesn't pay the taxes on it. He'll be in deep shit if they ever find out he uses it for anything but farm equipment. Once I get moved up where he is he says I can buy it too, but I have to keep records in case anyone comes snooping. I got a 60 gallon tank so I can keep the good stuff close to home. it won't help me out on the high way though.

    I am a firm believer in the Moroso octane booster. I probably wouldn't use it to fire a 14:1 engine on pimp gas but I have used it on motors that run in the 11-12:1 range. I have not bought any in a long while so I can't tell you what it costs.

    her is something that just crossed my mind. I got a friend that plays with gas helicopters. They are like the old gas planes that we played with before electric and radio controlled was popular. They run basically on nitro, and you can buy the fuel in 5 gallon cans. I wonder if you could mix that crap with your gas?
     
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  11. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,516

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hey, Beaner;
    IIRC, you could, but I wouldn't to be the one paying for it. & I'd guess you'd get into phase-separation in the new-fuel-combo. 2 gal moon tank, anyone? & I'm remembering that the fuel wasn't overly cheap, either... :D .
    From memory, Glow Fuel used Nitro, Methanol, Toluene, a handful other noxious-type chemical compounds, plus a fair amount of castor oil. & the only things that'd take off all the castor oil from the planes & hands/etc, would be straight Ivory soap(liquid) or lots of rubbing-alky. If nothing else, it'd smell a lot like the very old (teens-20's) racers. I can still (barely) remember the burnt-fuel smells(Mmmmmm... :) ) from the U-Control days. I'da worn an aftershave if it could've smelled like that...
    :D .

    As far as Required Octane goes, there's more than one way to approach that. "Mechanical Octane" (design of pistons, & chamber, including squish) really helps to lower the need, as does the mentioned h20/alky injection. Temp of fuel charge, mixture quality, & other paths. :D .

    Marcus...
     
  12. I used to use Boraxo to get clean, it stunk worse than the caster oil. :D

    I just wondered if it would mix.

    Lots of tricks around the octane requirements. Most of them won't fly with most that are reading this they are drivers not wrenches I am afraid and are looking for a band aide.

    I carry a little container of some stuff called Rocket Fuel on my bike. Its good for 3.4-4 gallons of gas. I run fine on pump premium until the outside air temps get up around the century mark then air cooling doesn't work well enough for pump gas.

    its pricey stuff (about 4 bucks a fill up) but it will get me home in a pinch.
     
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  13. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy


    yes nasty stuff and has weird handling problems , find out if its inhibited ( should say anti static additive ) some of the old stuff didn't have this stuff in it and just pouring it can cause a static spark explosion ( when we transfer it we bond all the containers and ground it )
    , also read the SDS or MSDS and get the proper PPE ( you can often get the msds or sds online ) , I will tell you PPE is in not one fits all situation , specially gloves and respirators . and with respirator it only filters out fumes to a point and it has to be made for the chemical vapor , but you still need oxygen and they do not provide that and the vapors displace it .
    and rule of thumb if you taste it in the air get out of there immediately !
     
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  14. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy

    ni
    nitro lowers octane numbers and you need a bunch of it to meet the air fuel mixture to get it to work right . man who brought up airplane nitro . The smell of Cox 049 fuels wafting over the playground on summer vacation .. a smell I cannot forget . and burnt caster oil , but I had my share of that with my 2 stroke street bikes . I hated cottonwood seeds , my bikes had poodle puff on the end of the chamber stingers ..
     
  15. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    To be clear ,the private airport manager will sell me 5 gallons occasionally because he's likes bikes.But last time I talked to him was a few years ago..However, I have never used LL100 in my race bikes...
     
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  16. A long time ago we used to mix AV with our fuel. I have never run it straight, they used to say it would burn your engine up. I am not sure why it would, but mixing it was good around the time of the first fuel shortage. Soooo if I ever really used it I am sure that it is past the statute of limitations.LOL

    Getting gas around here is an odd situation. Before I could buy pure gasoline at any of the local stations I went to the marina that was listed as having gas and not ethanol. They said that it was not for use on dry land and wouldn't sell it to me. Now we have several stations that sell Premium without ethanol.
     
  17. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    Back in the '80s I put an Edelbrock "Vara-Jection" water/alcohol unit on a DD to get by with reg. 87 octane as I was using the car to commute about 75 miles a day to work and back.
    It had a vacuum sensor that triggered a variable speed pump that injected into top of carb and was adjustable with the extra control you could get at a little extra cost. It worked to reduce octane requirement and the car ran great on reg. 87, and a side benefit discovered later when the plastic cam sprocket busted and the valves got bent @ 150K. Pulling the heads to fix, there was almost no carbon in the combustion chambers. Seat of pants feel was a bit more pep when I got hold of a half barrel of methanol from an old racing buddy who back then burned it in a dirt oval car. A helper had left the bung loose in the barrel, which was kept outside for safety, and he was afraid it was contaminated with rainwater.Mixed this 50-50 with tap water and it ran great.
    Regretfully, Edel. no longer sells this unit. There is another unit on the market, think it's from "Snow", but it's pricey.
     
    C. John Stutzer likes this.
  18. I used to be able to buy 100LL at the airport like I mentioned, they'd fill up 2 five gallon jugs. Not sure they would now. So the cans of booster seem most cost effective. VP seems to be comparable to Torco and a couple of $$ less. Better deals on boxes of 6 or 8 are available on eBay and Amazon.
     
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  19. quicksilverart46
    Joined: Dec 7, 2016
    Posts: 460

    quicksilverart46
    Member

    I can't resist responding to this. Octane boosters are a waste of money . If you can get toluene that is the best additive and its no secret why almost all Racing gas except the oxygenated ones smell like Toluene . The absolute best way to fight detonation is a Alcohol/water injection. A good one from Snow performance or The Devil's own will instantly and on demand convert cheap 89 octane to well over 110 - 115 octane . Most turbo guys know of and use these systems but it has gone virtually un-noticed by the high compression normally aspirated crowd. With these systems a street driven 13 to one compression engine is no problem on pump gas . No need for timing retard gadgets or slow curves plus if you are daring a dose of nitro can be added to the mix in injector tank . Enjoy!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  20. BadgeZ28
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,165

    BadgeZ28
    Member
    from Oregon

  21. Dave Mc
    Joined: Mar 8, 2011
    Posts: 2,579

    Dave Mc
    Member

    I buy 100+ leaded at the small town airport near here .
     
    C. John Stutzer likes this.
  22. Yupper. About 15 years ago I made a left and was into turbo 4-bangers for a while. I still have a half full 5 gallon can in the garage, in the back, in the corner, in the dark. I need to get rid of it. I'll give it to the first Hamb-er that comes and gets it..... midway between Austin and San Antonio. If I don't get any takers, I'll add a couple pints to each tank in my daily driver, "High Octane Recommended" GTO that was made someplace upside down in a year that's not HAMB friendly.
     
  23. Silverplate
    Joined: Mar 4, 2011
    Posts: 237

    Silverplate
    Member

    I am able to purchase 110 leaded VP fuel just a few miles from the house. It's not cheap. Normally get like five gallons or so and mix with 93 pump gas. My 64 Avanti loves this this stuff.
     
  24. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,248

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nitro needs a "catalyst" to mix with gas. Over a short time it's still going to settle out a little but getting sloshed around it stays suspended rather well. Used to put about 4oz in my early Sportster and make blue flame come out the straight pipes. Looked like blue neon 59 Caddy tails;) I'd mix 4 n 4 iso alky/nitro and the rest gas in a clear 16oz pop bottle, shake the shit out of it and dump it in. Never worried about it staying in there because I'd run it all out! Fun stuff, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.
     
  25. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy

    my local airport have to have a tail number and Pilot Id to purchase av fuel to take off site . and the pumps are in the offlimits area now too ( on the paddock behind the fence ) from what I understand they are trying to ween LL out and use a different additive or make the motors update to No lead spec . half of the planes at my local are now turboprops .
    but being near a National drag strip and a autosports park, and a well established performance shop , has its advantages as several gas stations carry high octane gases and theres several Distributors ( VP , Rockett, CamII, SUN ) within 20 miles of me . we used to get our 55 gallon drum of 112 delivered to the house .when it was Unocal the stuff was fresh from the Romeo refinery .
     
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  26. butchcoat1969
    Joined: Apr 1, 2017
    Posts: 165

    butchcoat1969

    Hmmm nitro aaaah ya I can smell it to oh to be at the track in July lol eyes watering, headache coming on and drinking ideas cold beer brings back memory's and walking thru the pits lol


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app HotRod Harry
     
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  27. butchcoat1969
    Joined: Apr 1, 2017
    Posts: 165

    butchcoat1969

    Yep the mothballs will do it but they are so hard to catch and then u need a magnifying glass tweezers it's a whole process lolololol maybe better just to buy a bag full lolol


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app HotRod Harry
     

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