Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical FRUSTRATED AND MAD!!!!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kscarguy, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 775

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    You just taught me something -- thanks.
     
  2. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    This is what I planned to do. Rotate engine both directions until it touches stop. Mark balancer at the zero timing mark. Center between those marks is TDC. If the center point does not correspond to the line on the balancer, then align the line on balancer against timing tab zero and read degrees my true TDC mark is off and adjust tab.

    TDC timing.png
     
  3. :)
     
  4. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    I have been told by two people that I can/should re-use my MLS head gaskets, and then by two more people that I should not. At the risk of opening up another can of worms...is there a rule about this? They had been sprayed with copper sealant over the black coating. Now I see a small bit of the black coating is coming off the gasket. My thought is that it is not worth the loss of piece-of-mind, to re-use them.
     
    N2hotrods likes this.
  5. Sincere overload,Contrary to popular believe we do actually have some rocket scientist here. :) HRP
     
  6. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    Why is that dark cloud still following me? The new flywheel cover I bought in St Louis, for my 700R4, does not fit the trans. Errrr! :mad:
     
  7. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,066

    prpmmp
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sorry It's found you,Maybe it will leave me alone!! Pete
     
  8. That ain't a black cloud, that's Murphy!
     
  9. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    Murphy must work for FedEx...because neither my distributor advance cam nor my exhaust valves arrive today like the were supposed too.
     
  10. no wonder i finally got my car started!
    The cloud migrated :D
     
  11. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    It just got worse. We were given a notice to vacate today since the owner sold the house to his cousin...damn it!
     
  12. ouch sorry to hear brother
     
  13. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,686

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Jeez, when it rains, it pours. Sorry man. But check KS rental house laws, as in most states there are laws about how quick you can be required to vacate, whether leasing or renting month to month also has a bearing on it. Here in GA it takes quite awhile before you gotta move, even if the rent is not being paid on time. Here in GA the probate court handles this, dunno about Kansas.
     
  14. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    Not a complete surprise. We changed to a month-to-month rental situation a while back, and agreed to give/accept a 60 days notice while we searched for a house to buy. We knew the house we are renting was pre-sold to a relative who had to sell his house first. The problem is that we have had zero luck finding the right house/property to buy where I can build a big shop with a paint booth, etc... The market is just very messed up and not too many decent properties for sale. I just wish the COE wasn't in a million pieces. Hopefully I can get it assembled quickly and running correctly as I'd like to use it to move much of my garage stuff.

    Still waiting to find out when the heads will be done. Valves did not arrive yesterday.

    I measured the old head gaskets. They are 4.200" MLS steel, .039 thick. I am tempted to put Fel-Pro 1014 gaskets (4.200") on the engine. The actual cylinder bore is 4.165". I thought I could use the 1003 gaskets that have a 4.165" hole, but I read that they are only good up to 4.155" bore. So... I guess the gasket hole needs to be bigger?
     
  15. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    I finally got my heads back. They are completely rebuilt. In addition to replacing the exhaust valves, he also replaced the intake valves but I don't really know why. It's not a big deal (only $40). He also took .005 to .008 off the surface just to make sure they are flat. I suspect he does want me to have any further issues with them. I'm glad they are done now, but they should have been like this the first time.

    I bought Fel-pro 1014 head gaskets (4.200 /.039 thick). Do I put them on dry?

    I am going to use RTV on ends of intake. Do I need to wait after applying the bead for it to tack up? or Do I set intake on with wet silicone? Is the Black RTV ok to use?

    When do I tighten/torque the intake...right away or should I wait for the silicone to set?
     
  16. "The right stuff" gasket maker is about the best stuff I've come across. Better than rtv and you only want to do that job once right ?

    Those 0.039 gaskets are for zero decked blocks. If by chance you have rebuilder pistons that sit an extra 0.010 or so deep on top of the 0.020 stock and the block wasn't zero decked you could wind up with at best 0.070 quench distance or if the tolerances stack the other way a 0.080 Quench. That leads to many problems you'd rather not have.
     
  17. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,456

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Dry head gaskets. RTV on the intake ends torque before it sets, and let it sit at least overnight before starting. Edit: I've also heard good stuff about the Great Stuff gasket maker that 31 Vicky mentioned. The only downside that I've heard is that it sticks so good it is really hard to get back apart.

    As far as the intake end gaskets, though, I have not had any problems with the rubber intake end gaskets, especially the older style that have the tabs (instead of the later ones that have the rubber pins) to keep it both aligned and from squishing out. You just have to get a good dab of silicone at the corners, be careful when you set the intake, and make sure that the gaskets are still positioned properly before bolting it down, all of which has not been that big of a deal on the ones that I have done.
     
  18. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    Yes, my block is zero decked.
     
  19. vtmopar
    Joined: Jun 5, 2013
    Posts: 47

    vtmopar
    Member
    from Vermont

    Sounds like your getting close
     
  20. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    Heads are finally back on. I torqued them first to 35, then 50 then 65 pounds (twice). Valve are all adjusted (each set at TDC) using the pushrod feel method, since I had the intake off. Tightened rockers right until there was no play (without collapsing lifter), then gave each 1/2 turn more.

    Intake is next. I am very tempted to use the factory rubber end seals with #2 non-hardening sealant all over them. I dry set the gaskets in place with the intake on top and they should seal even thought the block was decked.
     
  21. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,264

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Block was decked...heads were milled .005-.008 'just to make sure they are flat'.
    Art thou going to check 'corrected' manifold to head port alignment? Few thousandths removed there....

    Also reconsider (read: AVOID) using the rubber end seals...... instead of the GM (and droves of folks with experience) recommended RTV. The RTV will yield to the void remaining when manifold is clamped down...and won't squeeze out in one rubbery piece, like a Chevy excrement.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  22. If I remember correctly this is a SBC and if so then torque the long head bolts to 70 short ones stay at 65. As per Smokey Yunick. Gives you a perfect torque pattern because of bolt stretch.
     
  23. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    We decked the block .035 , but then discarded the factory .018" shims and installed .039 thick head gaskets. Add that all together and the heads set lower than stock by .014", before surfacing them. (-.035 - .018 + .039 = -.014)

    Surfacing an extra .005 to .008 off the heads now makes them set .019-.022 lower than the factory position. Not sure that is enough to require milling on the intake.
     
  24. Andamo
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 502

    Andamo
    Member

    Normal procedure is to take 1/2 the total cut taken off the heads and block on each side of the intake.
     
  25. When you adjusted the rockers, you did do it in the two stages right? certian ones with #1 at TDC and the rest with (I forget right now) but there is two different crank rotations and valve adjustment steps.
    -Pat
     
  26. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 775

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    Something else to consider is pushrod length. When I went through my 283 and decked the block because I used the dreaded "rebuilder" pistons and used thinner head gaskets my stock pushrods were .050" to long. Had to buy correct length pushrods because I did not want to put strain on the valve guides.
     
  27. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,574

    kscarguy
    Member

    UPDATE

    Heads reinstalled (.039 gaskets), intake installed (used rubber end gaskets and lots of #2 sealant), Second (used) HEI distributor installed, headers painted, Carb cleaned, steel fuel line cut off at carb and new hard end installed in carb (short hose with 2 clamps), fuel filter in carb replaced, everything painted and cleaned up, stock valve covers, two PCV valves, fixed wiring to fan switch...turned key and it starter right up on the first crank. Since then, I have revved it a few times and no popping through exhaust. I have not gotten on it hard yet.

    I still have oil leaks on the oil pan bolts to deal with, and I have not set the timing with a light yet, but for now it seems to run pretty good. At least good enough to load it down with garage stuff for my pending relocation to ... well, who knows where. That is another big issue that is making me FRUSTRATED and MAD.

    Thanks for all the help everyone.
     
  28. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,456

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Good deal, but why 2 pcv valves? Are you running an intake fill tube with a breather cap and drawing air from both sides?
     
  29. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,686

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Running 2 PCV valves just might bleed too much air into the intake and upset fuel mixture adjustments, in particular by loweringmanifold vacuum too much and prematurely opening power valve or needle fuel enrichment.
     
  30. A PVC valve is a controlled vacuum leak. 2 valves is 2 times that leak. That will be enough to piss the Pope off and get him frustrated and mad too.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.