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Technical Front radius rod / batwing question

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Lake Modified, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. I am not talking about welding the shackles to the perch. I am talkng about welding the perch to the batwings and installing the shackle to the perch. The batwings I am using do not bolt to the perch boss. They are welded on at the perch boss. It is left to the imagination of where to mount the spring perch to the wing.

    SM
     
  2. Then use your imagination.
    The Operative word here is "your" referring to imagination and not "the" .

    There is no need or reason to weld on a model A axle and there is no need or reason to weld the perches on.
     
  3. You said it ....
     
  4. What misuse of terms would that be so I don't use them again? I already have the spring. It is 1 7/8 wide and 31 inches eye to eye.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Do your set up as in the photo by 31 Vicky,,,NO FUCKIN WELDING...I had,repeat HAD a friend that welded his and it broke off,dropping car to ground then pole vaulted him to his death
     
  6. Are those wings homemade or if not, do you mind saying where you got them? I get it.... no welding.

    SM
     
  7. That spring / though it's 31" eye to eye is still too long when measured along the arch. It's going to ride hard.

    Just for shits and giggles, put the perches in the axle and mount the spring. Post a pic of that.

    On some tube axle the batwings are welded on, on the better tube axles they have a perch boss fabricated in.
     
    m&s rodz likes this.
  8. Try looking at the pics on a computer, a bigger screen.

    They are fabricated-
    Every hot rod shop sells them.

    If they are fabricated in a shop, they are fabricated. What the shop attaches to where the shop is located doesn't much matter. It's all about what and who's in the shop that makes the difference.
     
  9. This is the only pic I have at the moment. Won't be home until Monday..... I used Speedways method of measuring for the correct spring. Measure spring perch eye to eye and subtract 5"

    Sm

    [​IMG]
     
  10. I appreciate your help here, but there is no reason for the attitude. Just asking where those came from and I will purchase a pair.....

    SM
     
  11. There's no attitude.
    Again, wrong terms.
    Fabricated
     
  12. Yes, but,,
    their method completely ignored the arch height and the spring they give out is wrong.

    Let's say we wanted a spring Eye to eye 31" with a 10" arch. That requires a specific length of main leaf. To the extreme, let's say we wanted 31" E/E with 100" arch height, wouldn't the main leaf be considerably longer? Yes!
    So if we want 31" E/E with 7" or 6 or 5 or 4" arch wouldn't the main leaf need to be different length for each? Yes!

    That speedway spring it too long because the arch is too high
     
  13. Both of these are set up correctly and ride exceptionally well.
    it requires significant force to mount the springs.
    Check the arch height vs length loaded. Compare to yours about 10" high.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpg
     
  14. 270bob
    Joined: Mar 26, 2014
    Posts: 9

    270bob

    Hi, I would like to help you out. I beleive it is a worthy conversation. My email is crousescustommade@gmail.com. The last thing I want is anybody to get hurt with a home made suspension.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  15. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,146

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Add your help here!
    You have 4 posts, 3 on this thread actually, so nobody has any idea of your actual capabilities.
    You might be brilliant and that would add to the groups knowledge and be helpful to us all...or you might be out to lunch and not worth listening too!
    NOT being judgmental...because as I said...we have nothing to go on to judge you with! ;)

    Lake Modified (LM) is already getting good info and lots of responses. Now that we at least have a picture we can give proper advice.

    LM...listen to what "31 Vicky...." is saying.
    His advice is right on the money!
     
    31Vicky with a hemi likes this.
  16. 270bob
    Joined: Mar 26, 2014
    Posts: 9

    270bob

    I feel as though you are making the post about me, a new member to the HAMB. I was cautiously engaging in this new world to me. If i have crossed the line somewhere I will apologise for that now. I am sorry. I will not post my credentials to folks like you so that you can creep on me later. Automobile safety is important to me, and this suspension if not done correctly with the correct materials and parts will fail and cause serious bodily injury or death.

    As for the original topic. Good luck Lake Modified I am done.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. What the hell

    So what's wrong with adding to the group? Ya been here 3 years. Say what your gonna say, help the guy out, if you see something wrong then state it correctly. Pretty simple.
     
    Hackerbilt likes this.
  18. Wow, this thread took a dark turn... I appreciate all the tips and suggestions. I will find some bolt on batwings and forget about welding. Am also going to talk to Speedway about their springs.

    SM
     
    duncan likes this.
  19. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 2,749

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I would go with this setup over 4-bar or fooling with batwings and hairpins, personally. If you want spring-behind, there are brackets that go around the wishbone as well as drill and bolt heads to take the spring.

    IIRC most of Speedway's springs are short because they are meant for their aftermarket axles, not OE Ford axles, which take a longer spring. For some reason, Speedway makes their aftermarket drop axles perch boss (34")sit narrower than OE (36.5").
     
  20. They are going to tell you that you have the right spring and they won't be able to tell you why. Since they can't tell you why lts correct they don't know it's wrong or not wrong but they will tell you it's correct
     
  21. well, I cant be the only one who bought a spring from Speedway to use on a Model A axle for a T- Bucket..... Will have to think about what to do here.
     
  22. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,146

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Wow...very thin skin!
    I have to stand by what I said though.
    We don't know you so can't vouch for you or your abilities.
    Therefore we can't recommend that Lake Modified listen to you in private.
    If it wasn't you offering the advice, would you recommend that Lake Modified follow the private recommendations of a person you didn't know?
    Of course you wouldn't...so I hope you can realise that no disrespect was being cast your way!!!

    The advice being given here is good, and if it weren't then the bad advice would be jumped on and cleared up in short order.
    THATS the beauty of this place. It self moderates and keeps things pretty much in line.

    I hope you will remain a member 270Bob and become more active and thus better aquainted with everyone on the site. :)
     
  23. Think I am just going to throw in the towel on this Model A axle and order this front end from Speedway....
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Driver50x
    Joined: May 5, 2014
    Posts: 3

    Driver50x
    Member

    Hey there Lakes,

    Judging from the looks of your batwing templates, are you using Chester Greenhalgh's plans?

    I would suggest using a bolt on spring perch as others have mentioned here. But welding the batwing to the axle is perfectly fine, as long as your welding skills are up to snuff.

    Is the question you are asking about where exactly to weld the batwings to the axle? The components in your picture will work fine, including the 31 inch spring.
     
  25. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,026

    Andy
    Member

    Speedway is in the business of selling things and not designing or testing them. The tube axle with hairpin radius rods is an example of marketing over knowledge. The example is easy and cheap to make and therefore easy to sell. It is known that using hairpins with a tube axle will end in failure of something. I have seen them come apart. Use a four bar with a tube axle or a unsplit wishbone. A tube axle will not twist and will rip something up. A friend had that kind of a set up and carried spare perch bolts as he often sheared them off.
     
    m&s rodz likes this.
  26. mike bowling
    Joined: Jan 1, 2013
    Posts: 2,879

    mike bowling
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Speedway catalog has pictures and tech hints so you can set this up- if you use batwings, you attach them to the axle with flat top perch bolts ( nothing gets welded) Then the spring bolts to the batwings. You can make anything ( almost) work- it's hot rodding. This is a Dago axle ( model A heated and dropped ) IMG_3159.JPG
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 13,464

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

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