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Technical Front radius rod / batwing question

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Lake Modified, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Going with a spring behind axle set up. The spring perch will be welded to the batwing. Just trying to clarify where to weld the perch on the batwing. Have read the shackle should be at 45º angle. Can this be determined while there is no load? I can get the 45º angle no problem, with no load but if it needs the load before welding, how would you go about it since it seems to me the only axle attachment points are the welds at the batwings themselves. Is this making any sense? Also, do the batwings need to be 90º to the axle or can they be angled in a bit?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
    FlatheadWard likes this.
  2. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 277

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    You runnin' bones?
     
  3. Radius rods or a 4-bar, haven't made up my mind yet....

    Sm
     
  4. What car/frame?
     
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  5. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 13,970

    tfeverfred
    Member

    From what I've seen and experienced, welding the spring perch to the bat wing may be asking for trouble. I think I've read there's some swivel involved in there some where.
     
    duncan likes this.

  6. '23 T-Bucket
     
  7. Wow.. Okay, I have seen several race cars back in the day welded to the bat wings but I will look into it.

    SM
     
  8. Redneckrodshop
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 5

    Redneckrodshop
    Member

    I built my T-Bucket based on California Custom Roadster blueprints, which called for the spring perches to be bolted to the bat wings. Don't remember the angle of attachment for bat wings to axle. See if you can find a set of their blueprints, as they have full sized templates of all of the parts. Sorry I don't have access to mine right now, as I am a snowbird.
     
  9. Redneckrodshop
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 5

    Redneckrodshop
    Member

    Just checked, CCR has the blueprints on their website still.
     
  10. 270bob
    Joined: Mar 26, 2014
    Posts: 9

    270bob

    I am new here to the forum, however I am more than my years rod wise. You will need a shorter spring. I am referring to the spring eye measurement. This will set the shackle angle. Your batwing whatever style it maybe i.e. metal plate or original radius rod should have a perch boss machined into the batwing. Place your perch bolt through new perch bolt boss and you are done.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. Just got a set of their plans..... Thanks!

    SM
     
  12. This is how 98% of the spring perch is attached to the bat wings
    image.jpg

    The shackles are at 45* with a full load. You should need to spread the spring with great force to get it mounted, the shackles with no load will be at 180*
     
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  13. He's running bat wings.
    Bones and bat wings don't go together
     
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  14. Thank you!

    SM
     
  15. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 277

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    I misunderstood thought he was meaning to drill thru bones behind axle mount on bone
     
  16. By 180º you mean the shackles will be pointed straight down with no load?

    SM
     
  17. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 13,970

    tfeverfred
    Member

    No. Parallel to the axle or straight across.
     
  18. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 13,970

    tfeverfred
    Member

  19. I guess I was just curious how you are supposed to know where to weld the shackles on the batwing if there is no load......

    So if I mount the spring with the shackles straight out with no load they should go to 45º under load?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
    flyin flattie likes this.
  20. 270bob
    Joined: Mar 26, 2014
    Posts: 9

    270bob

    Only you can decide on the spring location. You have to take weight of car, spring rate, and preload of spring into consideration when determining location of perch location. Thanks and your welcome.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  21. What axle ? Tube I'm guessing right?
    What's the spring dimensions ?

    There's some Kentucky windage in play- but the shot has been made many times.
     
  22. flyin flattie
    Joined: Oct 13, 2005
    Posts: 386

    flyin flattie
    Member

    That's what I've always been told.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. Wow, there has to be one in every forum.

    I don't know the weight of the car yet since it is not finished and don't have any way of weighing once it is. Of course, I guess I could drive it to a truck weighing station, but by then the question would be moot. Don't know the spring rate or the preload. And even if I did know all of that, wouldn't know how to apply it to tell me where I should weld the spring perch....... Got any suggestions that a person could actually use?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  24. Model A Ibeam.... not dropped. Spring is a 48 inch reverse eye transverse from Speedway.

    Thanks

    SM
     
  25. I guess what I will do is make the batwings from the plans I have, set the shackles out straight and weld the spring perch in the middle of the batwing. If it doesn't work right, will just tear it out and do something different.

    One responder noted that maybe welding the perch to the batwing may not be a good idea. Are there any other opinions on this?

    One last question and will get off this subject....... anyone have any thoughts on the best type of steel to use for the batwings or any of the brackets for that matter?

    Thanks

    SM
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  26. That spring at 48" is way wrong for sure! It's too long and you won't be using it.
    Look at your axle and look at the pic I posted. Actually look at it.

    Look at the link tfeverfred posted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  27. That is exactly why
    And you won't be welding shackles. Again study then pic above. Batwing bolts to axle thru the axle's perch boss and that's your fixed dimension. Spring Perches bolt to batwings and spring hangs between on shackles.

    Don't be "the one"
     
  28. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,091

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    I think you need to put up some pictures of what you have.
    It SHOULD be fairly obvious to you, from the pics already posted, that there is a better and simplier way to attach the shackle perches to the "bat wing" than welding them on!
    I'm thinking you are trying to build one style of front end while we are describing another...most likely due to your misuse of terms.
    Pictures of exactly what you have will clear things up.

    BTW...you decide on your spring width based on available space. Matching unrelated parts, you don't simply get to use what you have as there is such a variety available. Sometimes you might get lucky when doing a custom front end...most times not and you then build a spring accordingly.
     
  29. I made a boo-boo when I posted that..... the spring is 31" long eye to eye.

    Sm
     

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