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Technical Front mounted blowers

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by eightballgrifter, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. Came across a couple of cool pics of font mounted blowers today and it reminded me of many of the old European Grand Prix cars that favoured this set up. One thing that has me puzzled though is the link between the crank and the blower. Assuming these were bolted directly together how was the crank successfully balanced? I'm guessing harmonic balancers of any form were out the question? I've tried to look for technical drawings of a potvin set up but haven't managed to find much. Any info would be greatly appreciated. IMG_2412.JPG IMG_2411.gif


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  2. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,602

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I am most certainly no authority on these setups, though I remember them well from Hot Rod Magazine pics. I don't see why conventional engine balancing would be difficult or adversely affected with this style blower drive......provided, some attention was paid to blower impeller balance.

    As for harmonics, any change in mass has an effect on the point at which the natural harmonic frequency is encountered.

    The blower itself may very well be a sufficient 'Harmonic Dampener"

    In any case, those front drive blowers are Classic!..... imo
     
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  3. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,441

    john worden
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    from iowa

    I'm sure you are aware of the Blower Bentley set up. Would research into those help you?
     
  4. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,539

    khead47
    Member

    Downside is most setups were 1 to 1 ratio only.
     
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  5. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,214

    sunbeam
    Member

    Some car mag back in the 60s had a write up on a Cadillac V12 with a front blower I'm guessing a 368 it had the manifolds on the outside of the V. Damm that thing was cool.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  6. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 403

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    sunbeam, Joe Panek's coupe Scan0038.jpg
     
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  7. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,214

    sunbeam
    Member

    That's the one ,still one of the coolest engines ever. I was hopeing someone would have a picture.
     
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  8. Thanks to everyone who has replied. Definitely food for thought and a bit more research! That coupe looks great...I've found a couple more as well....
    IMG_2413.JPG IMG_2414.JPG IMG_2415.JPG IMG_2416.JPG


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  9. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,602

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    What is the story on this engine?? obviously the intake ports are on the outboard side of the heads, but so are the exhaust?? I've seen reversing the ports before, but do not recall ever seeing heads modified in this fashio. Anyone know more details about it??
     
  10. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,214

    sunbeam
    Member

    The ports are stock, manifolds are like a inline 6 one set on each side. https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...6/20778_c0e51caa8531_low_res.JPG&action=click
     
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  11. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,602

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    no, no, no.....not THAT engine! :D

    I 'quoted' the post with the drag coupe on the magazine cover that has the blower pressure tubes (intake) on the outboard side of the head with the exhaust pipes just below them on the same side.

    Seemingly, that could only be done if the heads were highly modified (or special castings) to change port passage direction from the normal intake manifold/lifter valley side to outboard.
     
  12. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,723

    RichFox
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    Yes that engine. The Cad V12 and 16 motors were a very narrow V. 45 degrees I think. So, not a lot of room in the middle for manifolds. So as Sunbeam says the intake and exhaust were outboard. The 16 was a nine main engine with 456 Cubic inches. They say you could balance a quarter on the valve cover at idle. And start in high gear without slipping the clutch. I saw one in a roadster in 55 or 56 and have been in love ever since. Joe's car ran at El Mirage mostly and was in the 180 mph range as I remember. Sounded just kike a blown fuel motor should.
     
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  13. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,602

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    :oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops:...............oops! I 'thought' I was looking at a V8 from the '50s/'60s, not a 'modern' V16 engine from the '30s.........

    now, where did I put my glasses......o_O??
     
  14. 3blapcam
    Joined: Jul 15, 2004
    Posts: 521

    3blapcam
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    Holy Shit Elco... that is an Eff'ing sweet setup!!! Is there a story behind that setup? That discharge tube is just fun to look at and icing on the cake!

    3blap.
     
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  15. dan griffin
    Joined: Dec 25, 2009
    Posts: 418

    dan griffin
    Member

    Use a chain coupler like a 2 motor dragster.
     
  16. 1947knuck
    Joined: Sep 4, 2011
    Posts: 5,650

    1947knuck
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    Here's a few pictures I have saved over the years, cool engineering for back in the day. CusslerMuseum-1929-Bentley-4point5L-c.jpg 1280px-Bentley_4½_Litre_Blower.jpg 1024px-Birkin_Bentley_4½_Litre_Blower.jpg
     
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  17. Here's an interesting article I found in one of my old Hot Rod magazines[​IMG]


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  18. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,990

    bct
    Member

    49064748_2339983036287987_8831678544242278400_n.jpg 49512315_2339982896288001_5841911879185727488_n.jpg 49899022_2339982956287995_5258657991858585600_n.jpg found these on facebook as per ellco's post
     
  19. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 403

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    Eightballer, how about a set of quickchange gears between the crank and blower allowing you to change the drive ratio fairly easily
     
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  20. Thanks for tracking down those images bct! I had always assumed that the driven impeller on the blower was directly bolted to the flange on the crank but looking at this last photo it would suggest that it is either gear driven as Studebaker Joe suggests or perhaps some kind of chain drive....either way it would it looks from this photo that some front mount set ups had the potential to be overdriven/under driven.


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  21. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,996

    porknbeaner
    Member

    no harmonic balancer but when that setup was popular a lot of what got raced didn't come with a harmonic balance anyway, just a lower pulley.

    Some of them were not direct drive some had a gear box t=for under/over drive but most were driven 1:1.
     
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  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 12,045

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

  23. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,996

    porknbeaner
    Member

    LOL long before 3D modeling software and 3D printers for sure. Back when men we men and rubbers weren't invented yet. :D

    I should add here that there were several men or companies making these setups back then. The Potvin units were all driven off the crank snout as I recall.
     
  24. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,723

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The first Potvin blowers were direct drive off the crank nose. Dampers are not balancers, so that was not a problum. The blower acted as a damper. Later Potvin kits could include QC gears to step up the boost. But by then tooth belt blowers were common and so the front driven blower was obsolete.
     
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  25. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,549

    mgtstumpy
    Member

  26. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,481

    97
    Member

    Joe's coupe is indeed alive and almost well in Torrance. Joe still owns Rotofaze , and the coupe. The engine was hurt, he broke a timing chain last time he went to El Mirage.When I was last at his shop he told me he was going to repair it. It is in fact A V12 as described . You can find a video on his website or youtube of Joe on a 180mph pass. Brief but awesome vintage footage The blower is mounted upside down to how most front blower mounts are done. That is because he made a geardrive system using quick change gears and his own castings so he could vary the overdrive on the blower. In fact Joe made everything on the car himself as hotrodders did then.


    Some pics I took 10 years ago, not much has changed.

    DSC00031.jpg DSC00032.jpg DSC00033.jpg DSC00034.jpg DSC00035.jpg DSC00024.jpg DSC00025.jpg DSC00026.jpg DSC00027.jpg DSC00028.jpg DSC00029.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  27. lowrd
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 195

    lowrd
    Member

    I don't have a picture of it, but didn't the Orange Crate have a crank mounted blower?
     
  28. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 335

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

    Still available from Mooneyes
     

    Attached Files:

  29. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 12,045

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon



    [​IMG]
     
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