Projects Front end frame help please

So im almost to the stage when its time to fab the front end of the frame on my 60 comet project but im kinda stuck on options on what to do. I have been looking at the frame and how it is made and to me it looks like two sections of C channel welded together. Should I completly cut the frame off and fab in new box tubeing or should I cut the lips off, ( see in pic. Outside bottom that sticks out and the outside top that goes up, both on the outside of the frame ), grind them down, reweld the seams and slide the new tubeing over the old for added strength then plate it up towards the back where it begins to get wider just under the floor. If anyone has some detailed pics that I can look at or any ideas, which im sure you all do, please post them for me to see. Thanks.

 

How thick is the material that the frame is made of?

If you are going to keep any of it, I suggest you do NOT cut off the lip...that is what gives it strength.

btw I kept the original front subframe rails on my Chevy II, it has a blown big block with a bunch of drag strip runs and street miles on it, no issues.

 

Another thing...I spent a few weeks deciding how to build the chassis on my car. It's not something you should rush into by cutting things off the car.

 

That's one of the things the guys were warning about in youre earlier thread.
Like Jim said, You can't remove the strength the lips add.
When it's said and done, recreating that area out of tube will probably be the best answer, but there may be other alternatives. Chances are that its just to thin to bother with.

Get a plan together that takes it all into consideration, bumber to bumper and the cage.

 

Thanks and this is what im trying to figure out and what would be in best interest as far as strength. My thought was just to cut the lips off, reweld and grind down and slid the tubeing over that, just to have added strength inside the new, then plate it all up. Also, another concern I have is that when this is done, do the fenderwalls get cut out along the frame, because that is also welded onto the top side of the frame on the upper lip and on the firewall, then rewelded back on and straightened back out?

 

Uh, why are you lopping off the frame anyway? This is the same as Mustang, and you can get a bolt in MII suspension, and just drop the original crossmember. No need to reinvent the wheel. Er, rather, the chassis the wheel bolts too...

 

Im going to put in a straight axle....... I hope.

 

What are your plans for the fire wall back that would decide what i would do in the front. as it sits you have already cut most of the strength out when you removed the towers

 

That would depend on your design.
Personally I'd leave as much of the inner fender as I could.
What dimensions is the sheet metal box ?

 

Ford didn't put any more metal into these than they needed with a six cylinder, so you have to pay attention when modifying. First, those framerails aren't the same thickness everywhere; Ford 'layered' the sheetmetal in specific places. By the time the rails get under the front floorboards, they're the same thickness as the fenders (thin). Just reinforcing the rails from the firewall forward and removing the inner fenders will result in a car that will fold up at the firewall.

If it were me, I'd cut all of the existing rails out all the way to the rear rails and fab new ones out of 2x4 3/16" wall square tube, tying both ends together. Depending on how high you want the front of the car, these could be just two straight pieces, or you could 'Z' them a few inches under the toeboards. Weld these to the floors too. The new rails will end up sticking through the floor in the rear footwells. Installing some torque boxes from the new rails to the inner rockers would be a good idea also. If you remove the inner fenders, I'd recommend putting in a diagonal brace from the firewall to the front of the frame stubs.

This is a major project no matter how you do it, might as well do it right....

 

Go thru this link, be sure to get part 1 and Part 2 in red first line.
I'm sure you'll get done ideas from that
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...e-bird-blown-injected-nailhead-falcon.581214/

 

There are several ways to so it. What you goals are for the car, should be the first thing you figure out.

When I was building my car, I wanted to make it go fast...not do wheelies...so I wanted to reuse as much original metal as I could and not add the weight of a rectangular tube running the length of the car. But if you have different goals, maybe you need a different build than I did.

You can regain the strength lost from cutting out the inner fenders with a well placed diagonal brace from the front of the frame rail. to the top of the firewall, where the original inner fender structure attached.

But showing someone how to engineer something over the internet is pretty difficult...so maybe you ought to just cut out all the original stuff, and build a modern race car frame under the body, like most folks do.

 

The goals for the car is to just beat around on the street and raise some hell, NO TRACK raceing because there are none around. Its going to have a rebuilt 289 in it, if it can be rebuilt and if not, I will either find another one or fine a 302. I would LIKE to be able to lift the front end on launch for nice visual effects, haha. I just wired wheeled the frame and it looks perfect, at least to me but as one of you mentioned, it is pretty thin like the fenders. The rest of the frame on the way back is just as clean. Would it be a good idea to just maybe plate the frame and make frame connectors for the rear section? Sorry to ask so many questions but this complete build on this is something I have never done before and I just want to make sure I get it right the first time. Thanks for everyones answers and please keep them coming. If the strut towers are not really worth all that much to try and sell, I might just hack off the flange and weld that back on so the inner fenderwell will have its strength back, what do you think, are they worth anything and maybe a good idea?

 

Actually, if you were racing it and not street driving, you could probably get away with less rework. Race tracks generally don't feature pot holes, railroad tracks, angled driveways and general bumps. And you only put wear on 'em at a 1/4 mile at a time. Ford did a lot of reinforcing on these when they went to the 260/289 motors (and these were lo-po 2-barrel motors), they wouldn't have done it if it wasn't needed. I honestly think that trying to reuse the existing rails by 'plating' them will be as much if not more work that just putting in new....

 

I haven't looked at one enough to give a valid opinion.

 

I will plan on installing a round brace from the front corner of the frame to the firewall and also putting in a roll cage So all and all, what would be the best way to go for just street beating around and possibly be able to lift the front end up? Here is another pic of the frame cleaned up with a wire wheel.

 

How thick is the metal? .060? .090? somewhere in between?

 

I cant find my caliper but going by change, each piece is about as thick as a quarter.

 

a penny is .062, so it's probably close to .090. Not much different from the front frame on my car. And it seems plenty strong to me, and as I said, holds up fine to repeated abuse...with about 650 hp or so.

If you do decide to keep the front frame rails, don't try attaching real thick metal to them. 1/8" should be fine for attaching brackets for the motor mounts, spring perches, etc.

 

One other thing...does it have some type of "torque box" that connects the front frame rails, to the inner rocker panels? Maybe post a picture of the underside, at the front of the floor.



on this picture, I'm talking about the piece that connects the frame rail just ahead of the transmission crossmember, to the inner rocker. Green arrow.

 

Was your car a 6cyl or V8 originally? I was just curious how much thicker the frame was on the ones with the V8 compaired to the 6. The frame is REALLY, REALLY SOLID on this car so I would really hate to cut it off just to add more weight with the box tubeing, I would rather just plate it up a little with some thin stuff, maybe 1/8 plate and call it a day but if you think I wouldnt need it then even better, I can just make the frame connectors.

 

Im pretty sure i

Im pretty sure it does but I will get under it tomorrow and post some pics.

 

My car was a six cylinder....they didn't even put V8s in them until a couple years later.

Do you plan to install an NHRA legal roll cage?

 

http://www.newenglanddragway.com/

 

Two gauges thicker, and a whole lot more of it. I had to add about 200lbs of metal to my '60 Falcon to make it road-race/autocross ready.

When I say that these things are THIN I mean THIN! I had trouble welding my subframe connectors in. I had to borrow a welder that had better heat control below what my daily-use welder has.

Take care calling what you are finding in this car a frame. This is a unibody construction vehicle, and as such, it has no frame. Every part of this car is considered structural. You cannot remove anything without adding back in as much, or more in its place.

Those shock (not strut) towers that you took out were structural, both the inners and the outers. You will need to add back in strength.

Since this is a street vehicle, and is not going to see track time, weight should not be an issue (especially if you consider that GVW on these is like 2300lbs. to begin with).

For a straight axle gasser style, without a full cage, you will need to plate all four sides of the front subframe rails, as far as they run back, then connect them to the rear rails as described above, and add the aforementioned torque boxes. These are square or rectangualar tubes that attach the subframe rails to the rocker panels, on the inside. I would plate the insides of those too. You would be effectively creating an actual frame, in-place.

It is either that, or a full cage. I have had full cage street cars. It gets really old, after about the 5th or 6th time you have to get in and out.

 

Honest question gimpy. When you talked about unibody construction and you said "as suck", was that a pun or a rare typo on your part.

You're not known to make typos......

 

I'm drunk, and a little high.

 

Haha. At first I thought you were saying unibody construction sucked. I just started drinking Black Russians.
Happy new year

 

Happy new year to you too!

I drive unibody daily. Either the '60 Falcon, or the wife's heavily cross-braced diesel VW (HP doubled, still CA smog: PASS!).

 

The front frame on me 63 6 cylinder car is all 20 ga sheet if I where to do a straight axle I would replace every thing from behind the trans cross member forward with 12 or 14 ga and add subframe conectors and tork boxes. This is where im at with mine