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front drive blown reverse flow flathead

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 55willys, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    I am planning a blown flathead with reverse flow or intake and exhaust swap. Has anyone on here done anything with front drive blowers or reverse flow? My plan is to use a 6-53 blower and adapt a V8 quick change gear housing to be able to change blower speed. the shaft centers of both are the same. I also plan to run the intake through the exhaust ports and the exhaust out the top. I have found a place that can cut a cam blank and a local cam grinder who can grind it with the intake and exhaust lobes swapped. Any insight or info would be appreciated. The vehicle I am putting it in is a 29 closed cab pu on a 32 frame.
     
  2. Terry Buffum
    Joined: Mar 20, 2008
    Posts: 264

    Terry Buffum
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Oregon

    Was that how the Miles & Maine Bonneville streamliner was originally set up?
     
  3. fastrnu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 739

    fastrnu
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    from shelton,wa

  4. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
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    The blower is going to be mounted in front of the radiator. I am going to use a lovejoy coupler on my crankshaft and run the shaft out through the crank hole to the blower. the mount will be like a Blower Bentley Speed 6.
     
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  5. make damn sure you post up a build thread when it gets going!
     
  6. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    I plan on a build thread when I build it but for now I am still collecting parts for this project when I can find and afford them.
     
  7. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    I will try to post some pics of the blower tommorrow
     
  8. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,873

    Ned Ludd
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    This sounds really interesting.
     
  9. 270ci
    Joined: May 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    270ci
    Member

    Sounds like a cool and different project. I'll be watching this one.

    You may already be aware that the 6-53, or 6V53 (as they are actually denoted) do not have bearings to support the rotor shafts. On either the short case (174 ci displacement) and the long case 6V53 (209 ci), the rotor shafts simply run in reamed holes in the aluminum end plates and require pressurized oil to live! The Detroit 6V53's were low speed blowers that did not exceed 1800rpm, so you'll need to take that into consideration when converting to supercharger duty, where you'll likely be turning the blower at much higher engine rpm. With your remote mounting out front, you'll need to plumb oil lines to and from the blower.

    IMO, an 8V53 is better choice. They have a displacement of 330 ci and they use real bearings which can easily be upgraded with modern high rpm units. Also the 8V53 has three lobe twisted rotors, like a 6-71, which do not pulse the intake charge like the two lobe straight cut rotors of a 6V53.

    Although I started out trying a 6V53, I ended up using an 8V53 to supercharge a 261 Chevy inline engine (shown in my avatar) and it worked out very well...10 lbs boost at 7% under driven.
     
  10. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
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    from Colorado

    Sounds like a cool build!

    I really like the idea of the quickchange to swap blower speeds. I'll be following this one with interest!
     
  11. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,327

    porknbeaner
    Member

    The only way to underdrive a crank mount blower is with a gear reduction box, while they are available they are pricey and hard to come by. Basically with a crank drive it is what you see is what you get in most applications or 1:1 if you prefer. Short of a gear reduction drive the only way to adjust boost is through blower setup, one would want to set it up looser than suggested specs.

    My experience while limited with reverse slow engines is that they work best in a rear mount sitiuation. On a flathead the reverse flow does not gain you much, maybe with forced induction one could overcome that.

    All that said it could or would be a wild looking setup for sure.
     
  12. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Beaner, on a flathead, the reverse flow helps a lot! Swapping the intake with exhaust ports will make a cooler running engine. Also, with the blower, the exhaust side will breath better. It's a win/win!

    Basically, the quickchange could act as the gear reduction box, right? A simple change of gears would up/lower his ratio, without changing pully's or belts. It's a cool idea, but only worth the cool factor, as more to lose in HP than to gain.
     
  13. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,327

    porknbeaner
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    Ha some how I missed the grear box when I read through it.:eek:
     
  14. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member


    Thanks for the ci info. The way I have it calculated is that a 239 v8 = 119.5 ci per revolution and with the 6V53 at 209 ci I would be ok with a bit of underdrive. I had planned on oil lines to an from blower.
     
  15. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member


    The cool running engine was the main idea. If you have ever read "The V8 Times" every road trip they take is fraught with overheating. I hadn't thought of the friction loss through the gears. How much loss do you think the gears would make?
     
  16. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
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    As to the gear box for the quick change gears I have a source for more blower end plates that I will mill the centers out of and use as spacers and one complete one to cap it off with. The qc shafts will be made out of model A driveshaft ends.
     
  17. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,873

    Ned Ludd
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    Ned Ludd wouldn't be Ned Ludd if he didn't throw in the idea of adapting a scooter CVT to drive the blower :)
     
  18. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 582

    coilover
    Member
    from Texas

    There was an article in Hot Rod several years ago (10-15?) that was titled "High Tech Flathead" that was a reverse flow and made something like a rediculous 550hp. The builder was a guy that was a famous Mopar drag car racer IIRC. An archive search would probably turn it up. It was a comprehensive artical that showed a lot of detail.
     
  19. 270ci
    Joined: May 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    270ci
    Member


    Sounds like you've done your homework and are off to a good start. Here's the only pic of a successful 6V53 blown Chevy six I have from a guy in Europe somewhere, although it's not front mounted as you intend.
     

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  20. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,327

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Nedd you think so far out of the box all the time that I am sure that someone just put the bos up in the attic to collect dust. Damned sa hame a perfectly good empty box collecting dust. :D:D

    55Willys,
    I read an article a while bacvk that referenced the parasitc loss of a quickly compaired to a common rear like a 9" Ford it was minimal.

    If you go with the newer gears instead of the 900 year old design you can reduce the loss by a ton.

    Instead of running an entire quick change you could just build your own simple box using spur gears for reduction. You could still swap out gears to change your under or over drive and it would not take up as much apsce as a quick change rearend. Just a thought for you.
     
  21. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    That was the plan to use just the qc spur gears close coupled to the blower gears in an extension housing made from a couple blower end plates
     
  22. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    Finally got some pics, I will try to post them tomorrow. Got to get a new camera mine is broke. I don't have a computer so I use my friends or step sons, that is why I am a bit slow responding.
     
  23. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado


    Man, I really like this idea, from the cool factor alone! You shouldn't lose very much HP this way, and you'll have a modern "Mad Max" setup! Of course, you'll will work, and his was BS!

    The only thing cooler would be if you used a Caddy flathead, instead of a Ford!:D
     
  24. Humm subscribed......
     
  25. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    Here are the pics I promised. Quick mock up to give you an idea.
     

    Attached Files:

  26. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,599

    55willys
    Member

    Did some mockup on my friend's modified to show kind of what the plan is. The second photo is sitting on top of a Ford 2.3 to show how long the blower is.

    Any ideas on what carbs to use? The carbs pictured are just a mockup set to give an idea on options for induction. This is going to be a street driven daily driver so the cam won't be too radical even though the overall look of the truck will be.

    I plan on using some end plates with the centers opened up and stacked for a quick change gear housing coupled up against the blower gears. the shafts will be cut down 6 spline model A drive shaft ends. A love/joy coupler on the crank to drive it all through crank hole in the 29 A grillshell.
     
  27. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

  28. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,873

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    DCOEs should work as well if there is room for them. Of course if you want the 4½ Bentley look a pair of SU HS6's would be just the thing.

    Here's another idea I'd been playing with a few years ago. If your improvised gearbox has the same shaft spacing as the blower, how about tilting the gearbox over by 30°, and then running the blower horizontally as on engine-top installations? It'd be a departure from the Bentley look but it would allow the sorts of induction arrangements one expects to find on top of a blower. It was the prospect of two 4bbls with a scoop on top riding in front of the grille shell that kept me harrying away at the idea.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  29. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Ned, you're idea are always cool!

    Here's the confuguration I was thinking of. A pair of IDA's on each blower would be a cool setup, IMHO!

    If you're gonna build this over the top, then be WAY over the F'n top!:cool:
     

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