The subject of the Ford Comete, made in France roughly '52-'54, came up on another thread <http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150257#post1675216>. Rather than hijack that one, I thought I'd post a few pictures of them here. For those who aren't familiar with them, they're a little-known flathead Ford from the '50s. A guy named Jean Daninos, president of Facel, developed this car with help from Pinin Farina before he went on to build Facel Vegas, and Ford of France took it on as a limited production model. The early ones used the French version of the V8-60 (the B/W picture and the color photo of the white car); a later version, called the Monte Carlo, used the flathead 85 (all the other pictures). They are extremely scarce today -- they didn't make many to begin with, and they are rust buckets -- but all the color photos are of vehicles that have shown up in the last few years.
There was one on UK eBay about a year or so ago - seemed in above average condition too. Wish I had the money then. Not a bad looking little car...
Nice little car. The 4-speed transmission became highly sought after by the early Hot Rodders over here.
More info on these can be found on the Facel Vega web site. The Ford Comete is considered a marqued car for membership. www.facel-vega.asso.fr/ Unfortunately much of the info is in French . There have been a number of them up for sale on E-Bay. If memory serves me right ,there was a convertible, in California, for sale there about 6 months ago. For those of you with the cash and desire www.hymanltd.com/search/detailsasp?stockno=3205&recordcount=32 . As 50 said , This car was designed by Pininfarina . If you look at the Comete, Facel Vega FV , and other early cars, especially the one- off customs , you can see the evolution of the design process streched out over the years. The Comete and the Facel Vega FV1/FV2 share the same roof line. Theres a Early fifties Ferrari 345 That has a custom built body designed by Pininfarina that has a strikingly similar look the front of the Facel Vega FV and HK . You can even see design ideas flow over from the Ferrari designs to the work they did for Nash in the early 50's. I would post pics if I could figure out how to copy them from another site, as it would make the visual link I'm referring to more clear. It's my understanding that a designer like Pininfarina would put together a portfolio of cars and then shop them to the auto manufacturors and custom body builders. But I still prefer my Facel FV4, its got a letter series Hemi in it.
Go to the site, find the pic you want, right click on it, select Properties, then copy the Address/URL. Come back to your post, click the picture icon (pale yellow square with mountain & sun), & paste the Address/URL into it.
My dad has one, black with original paint. I'll get some photos of it next time I go for a visit. His has a column shift, if I remember corectly.
Hey, Was the four-speed trani used in other French or English V8/60s? 'the bellhousings the same as V8/85s? Jean Daninos was rumored to be something of a misogynist, refusing to fit rt. outside door locks to early model vehicles. He sited that any man who would open a door for a women is not someone he would want to sell a car to. Small wonder, again rumor, that his widow ordered his drawings and wooden bucks for the production of car bodies burned upon his death. Swankey Devils C.C.
Im no specialist in the subject. From what I know it was only French cars that did use the 4-speed all syncronized Pont-à-Mousson transmission. It was a optional transmission for the Simca Comete and used for Facel-Vega as well. Its extremely hard to find today... I do not know anywhing more, sorry.
Chrysler used this trans behind the 300's and other performance engines of the late 50's & early 60's. Rare isn't the word for these transmissions here in the States but they were commonly used in French and other European trucks of the period. This trans was used in the Facel Vega FV & HK 500 but I dont believe it was used in the Comete.
These are two of the cars I was referring to in my earlier post . The first a Facel Vega FV1 . You can see the similarity in the roof and the body sides. The FV4 in the other pic shows the further evolving of the Comete
Interesting! I forgot that it was the 4-speed Pont-à-Mousson transmission that was used for the Chrysler 300 as well. Though a websearch did renew my memory about that. It told me that the French transmission was modified to fit by Chrysler and used for the 1956-60 Chrysler 300, replaced by an American made transmission in 1961. But I think that the 4-speed was a quite rare option on the 300 and the Chrysler bellhousing has a different pattern than Ford. Therefore it will not be a direct fit, compared to the one used on the Simca Comete in France. The site did also tell me told that the Frenchmen got Chrylser Hemi´s in trade (rectriced import to France during those years) for use in the Facel Vega´s (I just noticed what you are restoring. Its a wonderful car!). Concerning the use of Pont-à-Mousson transmission in the Comete (that by the way had a body made by Facel), I´m quite sure about that. There is also some information on the Simca Facel site http://simcafacel.levillage.org/article.php3?id_article=254 about it. Though, to me it seems a bit odd that exactly the same transmission was used for trucks and sports cars (I worked at truck transmission plant for 20 years). I know that a Pont-à-Mousson transmission was used for the Ford flathead powered French Marmon trucks as well (that truck is the source for all the "new" flatheads that suddely appered some years ago...). As Pont-à-Mousson was a foundry and a transmission/engine manufacturer (they made the first engine used in the Facelia as well), I belive they made several different transmissions. The text to the photo below says that Pont-à-Mousson Series 1 transmission was used in Facel Vega 1955-1958 and the Series 2 transmission was used in the HK500 and Facel II (I do not know if the Series 1 was the same one as used for the Simca Comete, but it might have been...). .
RPW . I'm unsure of the detailed history of the trans in these cars. I'm sure they made several different models depending on engine power and load needs . You just couldn't use an early trans designed for the early Ford engine and put it behind the 375 hp Chrysler and expect it to last. Its interesting that this trans comes up in some mid 50's Cadillac customs built by Bill Curtis. There had to be something about this trans that caught the attention of these engineers and designers of the time. If needed Hans Ruhe in the Hague may be able to provide some additional info . www.amicalefacel.nl Check out the interior design .This gives me inspiration for the Buick custom were doing . What intrigues me the most is who started what trend in styling and who copied who?
Check out the interior design .This gives me inspiration for the Buick custom were doing . What intrigues me the most is who started what trend in styling and who copied who?[/QUOTE] For sure, it was the continental flair that inpired guys like Dutch Darrin! Dutch did a lot of custom work in Paris (Darrin of Paris) and brought the european styling home to the USA. His early work with Rudy Stoessel and Paul Erdos (the guys that later started Coacraft of Hollywood) was what I see as the real start of the American Custom... (I´ve written a lot about that subject in magazines over here!). The interior looks good! A custom Buick with that one as a source of would be a wonderful. I realy would like to know more about that custom (feel free to contact me at [email protected] )
For sure, it was the continental flair that inpired guys like Dutch Darrin! Dutch did a lot of custom work in Paris (Darrin of Paris) and brought the european styling home to the USA. His early work with Rudy Stoessel and Paul Erdos (the guys that later started Coacraft of Hollywood) was what I see as the real start of the American Custom... (I´ve written a lot about that subject in magazines over here!). The interior looks good! A custom Buick with that one as a source of would be a wonderful. I realy would like to know more about that custom (feel free to contact me at [email protected] )[/quote] Hey, Mention of Dutch Darrin as inspired by "continental flair"........ I suggest that "He" was "continental flair"! If you trace his post- World War I work and design work with Tom Hibbard/ Hibbard and Darrin, and his 1930's work with Fernandez and Darrin, you see the early form and line of Harry Westergard, Coachcraft, Sam Barris, et al. Everyone of those pre/post WWII kustoms, that was sucessful, traded on that "continental flair" all layed down ten to twenty years earlier, by Darrin. Swankey Devils C.C.
Hey, Mention of Dutch Darrin as inspired by "continental flair"........ I suggest that "He" was "continental flair"! If you trace his post- World War I work and design work with Tom Hibbard/ Hibbard and Darrin, and his 1930's work with Fernandez and Darrin, you see the early form and line of Harry Westergard, Coachcraft, Sam Barris, et al. Everyone of those pre/post WWII kustoms, that was sucessful, traded on that "continental flair" all layed down ten to twenty years earlier, by Darrin. Swankey Devils C.C.[/QUOTE] You´re very right about that! For the last 20 years Dutch Darrin has been one of my main sources of inspiration when it comes styling. Cars like the Minerva that he built during his Paris years for his girlfriend, the showgirl/actress Lily DaMita, shows what custombuilders in the USA would pick up later on: Lowered, chopped windshiled, no runningboard, flamboyant paint... But what inspired Dutch Darrin? He did enjoy the life in the high society of late -20´s in Paris and when an amazing artist like Dutch Darrin had friends like Ettore Bugatti and André Citroën fantastic things was bound to happen! Without the influence of Dutch Darrin the American custom, and maybe also the Amercian car in general, would have looked very different. (BTW I once wrote an eight page long story about Dutch´s life and design. I still have it available but now only in Swedish. I once translated it to English but that was one saved on a computer disc that now is long gone.)
Hey, This is another one of those times when I wish I wasn't such a ludyte/komputer retard. It'd make a great thred/post to follow the early works of Darrin, Gordon Buehrig, & Al Leamy of early Auburn/Cord fame, through the '' continental flair" looks that also included the Italian/french touches of pre and post WWII (Ghia & Pininfarina), the Ford Comete etc. to follow those lines through to Westergard, to Barris, to Coachcraft to all the really good post war kustoms that utilized the "continental flair''. The chopped roof lines, the smoothed contures, the lowered ride heights, the skirtted wheels, the flow all from its' roots from the 20's designs. Swankey devils C.c.
The Pont-à-Mousson transmission used in the 85HP Ford Comete was almost identical to that used in 54-56 Facel-Vegas. For the FV, the shifter mount atop the tail shaft housing is located at the extreme rear, about 3 ½ inches aft of the mount location for the Comete. Therefore the shifter assembly itself is 3 ½ inches longer. Replacing the tail shaft housing and shifter assembly makes the Comete transmission serve for the FV. Conversely, replacing the FV transmission tail shaft housing and shifter assembly makes the transmission serve a Comete. Otherwise, the transmissions are identical. In fact, there was an overlap in casting numbers and serial numbers in the latter Comete and early Facel-Vega as though the transmissions (minus tail shaft housing and shifter assembly) were taken at random. This transmission (in both cars) is designated as Series I. The gear ratios were: 3.45, 1.96, 1.37, 1. With the advent of the HK500 Facel-Vega, the transmission (same case and internals) had a shorter (still aluminum) tail shaft housing, and was designated Series II. When Chrysler built the experimental 300C (400HP) to run in speed trials at Daytona Beach in 1960, the transmission (still same case and internals) had a cast iron tail shaft housing with Chrysler's parking brake mounted there. This transmission was designated Series IV. All the above transmissions had the Ford flathead bell housing pattern. This is a series I from a Comete. <!-- / message -->
A friend sold his Comete at this year's "Techno Classica" fair in Germany. They are indeed quite rare, I'm only aware of two Cometes ever sold over the past ten years. A Belgian colleague still has one:
Bringing up a really old post here.... are there any Comete owners on here? Anyone aware of any clubs? Surviving examples in the united states? I just recently picked up a 53 Monte Carlo that is mostly complete minus the engine, transmission, and radiator. Does anyone know what the origin of the frame, rear axle and front suspension is? I've seen pictures of a Ford Vedette that was disassembled and they seem similar, but it's hard to tell. What about the steering box? I haven't had an opportunity to tear everything down yet. Mine has a very interesting ford open drive banjo-ish rear end. The center section looks similar and may be the same as an american ford, but it's narrower and uses different hubs, drums and axles. It's also 4.5" bolt pattern I'm tempted to build this into a mild period custom. Just a couple small body modifications and update the drivetrain to something period, possibly an oldsmobile or a cadillac.
Okay, I know this is a resurrected thread. Reading through it, I see @Jerry_Rolls&Pleats mentioned seeing one at the 1991 Lead Sled Spectacular. I had to try to find this.... Found it in this youtube video posted by monsterflake (it's at 2:20): http://you-tube.one/watch/QDFwWUJKNFpGaUc4/kkoa-ohio-1991-part-1.html
I've seen 3 nice restored Cometes in SoCal in the last 10 years or so, and a like number of derelict rustbuckets. I've heard of several others around the country; my guess is that there might be 20 or so in the US, but half of those would be difficult restorations. Yours looks like it's salvageable, but I don't think its restored value would justify a complete faithful restoration to original. If I found one I'd probably go for more modern running gear, as you're planning, but I wouldn't mess with the body much. They are great looking in stock condition. This is my favorite among the restored ones I've seen; I believe it changed hands in the SoCal area for around $50K a couple of years ago:
Hello! I own a '53 Ford Vedette, so I have documentation on french Fords, including the Comete. There's a car club here in France, called "Club Vedette France". This club, which I am a member, has a stock of parts and good advices. They also have all the period documentation. Some of the members speak english. All the mecanical part on these cars is similar to the second version of the Ford Vedette (1953-1954): - the engine is the same, they just worked on it and the Comete has 1 more horsepower than the Vedette (woohoo!) - gear box: Pont-à-Mousson 4 gears, or "Cotal" electromagnetic 4 gears - worm and roller steering gear, brand Gemmer - same frame as the Ford Vedettes built after june 1950 (I can give you a diagram with the lubrification points if you're interested) - independent front suspension with coil springs - rear axle: they say in the documentation that the "couple conique est à taille Gleason", I find it hard to translate this... It must be something like "the angle transmission is Gleason size" Even here, the Comete is a very rare car (3064 cars produced!) . It's already very difficult to find parts for my Vedette (105 727 cars produced). Hope I can be helpfull! Have a nice day Cyrielle
Hey Cyrielle, Is that body really only standing on those leaning tower of Pisa concrete blocks ? Glad your still alive to post that photo.
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