The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Troublemaker427, Oct 11, 2006.
While this may not be the Paradise Ford tbolt (which I can't track down) it at least shows what it probably looked like. This is Del Blades 289 falcon which ran at Beeline Dragway in Scottsdale, Az. July 24, 1965 is one race it appeared and won at.
Another for your enjoyment...
Lets get this thread moving Again
A T- Bolt Tribute At The March Meet.
I'm curious; what motor was in this car, or what caused it to move out of S/S into modified?
im not up on all the class stuff but that car looks to be atleast mini-tubbed and it has a glass front end on it
how bout a fake?!
ok. so the hood is close?! lol
Must II front, 9in rear. stroked SBF and a 5 speed. FUN to drive for sure! And way cheaper than the real deal!
It has a FE in it. D/G just indicates what index it runs. It does not indicate it is running a heads up NHRA gas class as it would have in the 60's.
It's a very nice tribute car and does have a fiberglass front end on it as the original Thunderbolts did...
X2 what Jody said.Dan does not try to pass the car off as a Thunderbolt,just a very quick 64 Fairlane with a FE,will run in the nines,slows it down for the local 10.60 D/GAS class.We do not have a N/SS racing group out here in CA.,we do have an A/FX group out here that runs occasionally. ROY.
I've been curious about Del Blades for a number of years now. Iteresting, thanks for sharing.
I haven't seen any mention of a car owned/prepared and driven by Bill Hamner from the Birmingham Ala. area. I noticed a photo/race flyer for a match race between Bill's T-Bolt and a 64 Chevelle out of Tn. This was on the Alabama Auto Racing Pioneers website. Just a small blurb of a race in Courtland Al. and that Bill was the winner of the "Big 4th of July 36 Car Match Race". There is a small photo, but I am unable(computer illerate) to blow it up and post it here. Bill was also active in the circle track careers of Bobby Allison, Red Farmer and Neil Bonnett.
Bill Hamner drove the Dick Coffey Ford tbolt after Jim Cochrane soon found out it was too difficult for him to handle. Cochrane had contacted Bill for some help on getting the car to drive better whereupon the car worked so well after that Cochrane asked Bill to continue to drive and wrench on the car. They soon switched to a 4spd and drove the car throughout the 64 & 65 racing seasons.
I admit I'm confused now days with latest knowledge coming from a bicentennial rule book.
I'd have to start from square one. Thanx; Tom S.
A couple of more pictures...
It was a sad day Dec 1 1963 in T-Bolt history the Cars sponsored Match Race between Faubel's Dodge the Honker and the Tasca T-Bolt at Cecil County Drag-O-Way. The team from the Performance Division of Tasca Ford went down there with high expectations only to get spanked by the mighty Mopar. Faubel beat Lawton 3 out of 4 . Lawton was only able to win once and that was only by a red light fowl by Bud Faubel the ET are as followed 11.55-11.91 11.39-11.64 11.33-11.71. The Tasca team protested . Working under the timing stand lights the teardown crew pulled off "Honker's" heads then proceeded to completely dismantle the engine. Every part was checked out and the Tasca team admitted that the car was stock. All engine components checked out with the Dodge Ramcharger Stage III specifications. It was a long ride back to East Providence Rhode Island that night
In looking at ET's from that era, S/SA was usually quicker than S/S. Mopars dominated S/SA while Thunderbolts were winning in S/S.
It was easier to drive a Mopar off the starting line with a Torqueflite automatic than it was to launch a 4-speed Thunderbolt. That is probably why Ford built more Thunderbolts with the Lincoln automatic transmission than 4-speeds. Of course that did not work out and most Thunderbolts were converted over to 4-speed.
Not certain what their logic was on automatic vs stick. A number of Thunderbolt purchasers when ordering were told by a certain individual in Special Vehicles the automatic car was faster, but in reality not such the case. Of the first 50 units, 31 were automatic and 19 four speed. The Drag Council team members received (10) four speeds. Perhaps someone was hoping someone would figure out the combination to make an automatic Thunderbolt work?
The decision to use the Lincoln HX with the 427 High Riser was based on input torque requirements, which typically is the factor used in designing a transmission. Performance modifications included a secondary weld on the Cover studs, eliminating the rear pump to reduce parasitic losses, recalibration of the governor and band servo, and a 31 tooth Output Shaft. Higher stall speed converters were in their infancy and appeared mid year. Evaluation of the PCE Galaxie 390 Police MX mid year was worth a couple tenths in ET over the HX box.
<OEven with the Mopars the high stall converter was experimental. Roger Lindamood told me for 1964 only one of the Ramcharger cars had a higher stall converter, the other cars were running stock converters. He also mentioned Chrysler adapter Buick planetary gears to achieve a lower first gear ratio. Other changes involved calibration or shaft material upgrades to increase reliablity.
<OThe bottom line was the majority of automatic equipped Thunderbolts ordered four speed change over kits and dumped the HX. Perhaps if the MX unit with a higher stall converter was available from the start, along with some camshaft changes, things may of been different.
Thats the best narrative I've ever read concerning the automatic vs stick equipped Thunderbolts. It answers questions I've thought of for a long time.
Why didn't Ford or at least the individual racers adapt the Chrysler Torqueflite to the Hi-Riser engine? Was there some sort of NHRA preclusion on this or was it just a case of Pride on Ford's part? The advantage of the Torqueflite and it's superior performance was well known. Many ford racers over the years have adapted chevy's 2-spd auto to their non chevy cars when it suited their needs.
Also, what year did Chrysler's clutch flite come out? Seems like that would have been a great benefit for these light weight high horsepower cars.
Another question comes to mind-Why did the heavier 64 galaxie lightweight perform so well in competition? Didn't they use the same HX transmission early in the year prior to switching to the Police tranny later on?
NHRA S/S and Stock rules at the time required that only the OEM transmission could be used. That rule stayed in effect until 1984.
Since the HX and MX were similar 3-speed automatic transmissions, interchanging the two was accepted. However in the late 60's NHRA accepted a request from Ford allowing the C6 as a replacement automatic for the early Lincoln unit behind the Hi-Riser.
Of course Ford wanted to have an automatic to run S/SA in '64. The NHRA rule of the 7" tire limit made stick T-Bolts (and Mopars) tougher to launch hard with consistency. If the T-Bolts were running 10" slick tires as they did down South and in open competition S/S meets they more often than not trimmed the automatic Mopars. The 7" tire is the reason for the better overall times by the Mopars in strict NHRA competition. In those days no automatic could match the launch of a T-Bolt or Comet on 10" slick tires.
I was always told the biggest problem with auto TBolts was valve body and governor related, like being in 2 gears at once, inconsistent and dragged out shifts etc... and everybody added the extra pedal and went to a clutch and a T-10 on instinct very soon right after delivery.
Of the few Thunderbolts I can recall seeing, I never saw one with the original HX transmission. They were all changed over to T-10's. No Top-Loaders. In fact, and until only recently after speaking with the present day owner of our old TBolt, I had always thought they were all sticks.
I'm left wondering now how much value an original modified Linc HX transmission with the column shift mechanism would add to the value of a DST Fairlane today?
Tom S. in Tn.
Webster Ford T-Bolt on ebay #68 Automatic car that was a dog and changed over to a 4-speed http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964...ce_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item4ab6322a49
There is one currently for sale on Craigs List San Luis Obispo, Ca.
Fascinating stuff, thought I would pass this along; this Saturday, 28th, there is an auction i n the Wichita area, several 63 and 64 Fairlane hardtop and sedans are up for grabs, would hate to see all of this stuff go to the shredder!!
I bought Pat Gray's Thunderbolt for $200 from Pat. Pat's car did not have an engine or tranmission and the front end was cut up fairly bad. While I was looking for a set of headers, a guy in Selma Al. called me and said he had a set. When I got there I bought the headers and later that day I bought the rest of the car. (Country Boy) Tha car was in great condition. We stopped work on Pats car and took the fiberglass doors off of Pat's car and put them on the Country Boy. That is why it has two different VIN tags. Dop you have any other questions?
no55mad;that SLO Fairlane is NOT a Thunderbolt!! Cool Fairlane,Pro-Street Car though,seen it at a couple car shows. ROY.
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