The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TINGLER, Jan 16, 2007.
It seems like any world class ('90's Mustang GT) T-5 would be strong enough to stand up to your 302, even in a truck. I wouldn't spend the extra on a super duty.
If you don't abuse it, it would probably work fine, but I think the earlier toploader based 3-plus-OD trans is better suited for a real truck. Not as sporty, but stronger.
Like, hauling a few parts home from the swap meet?
Or, like hauling a 35' travel trailer from here to Timbuktu?
I would get a junkyard T5. Do you have a bellhousing, clutch, linkage? Are you gonna have more cabbage in your trans setup than anything else on the truck? I say pay more after you break a used T5.
You don't need the Cobra Z-spec (aka Super Duty) tranny - any '90-'93 Mustang T5 will be nearly as strong (300lb/ft vs 335lb/ft) & much cheaper. Even the '88-90 Mustang T5 is rated at 280lb/ft with earlier ones at 260265lb/ft, so you're probably fine as long as it's post-'85 (WC).
The later T5 gets some of its strength from a different alloy in the gears & the Super Duty changed some of the blocker rings & bearings. Are you going to use the truck as a truck? Might prefer the stock 3:35 gearset (Super Duty is 2.95).
The Z-spec Super Duty T5 is the strongest T5 made. I think there's few applications that require it - if you're pushing the envelope where you think the extra 35lb/ft is needed, you probably need a different trans anyway...
FWIW, here's the Mustang gear ratios:
'85-'95 (300lb/ft - except Cobra 310lb/ft)
1st - 3.35 2nd - 1.93 3rd - 1.29 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.68
Super Duty Z-spec (335lb/ft)
1st - 2.95 2nd - 1.94 3rd - 1.34 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.63
NOTE: '94-95 Mustang input shaft is longer - can use with '94-95 bellhousing, or swap input shaft with '89-up Mustang trans.
Crate 350/350 .
no! 350/350, thats really cool put a ford in that chevy and let em bitch, be differnt while useing what you have
You prolly won't like the gear spacing if you're pulling anything....
I'd be looking for a late-model Mustang trans with the 3.35 1st gear ratio to help get you moving when pulling a load. Cheaper than the Super Duty Z-spec - can prolly find one in your local wrecking yard for <$500...
I just sold a T5 out of the same concerns. I researched a lot and what you really need to keep in mind is that the torque ratings of a T5 are based on the design application of about 3000 pounds. If your truck is much heavier or you engine much stouter, you will have real cause to worry if you ever get traction. I thought about a T56, but just don't want to shift that much. How often would I really use 6th, anyway?
The solution I found is a Muncie M21 with an overdrive gear set. It's all the durabilty of the Muncie 4 speed with a .86 4th gear. I'm waiting on that all important check from my uncle and I will be ordering a full blown super case version. It retails for about $1800 with 100% new parts from Auto Gear Equipment, but Riverside Gear is an authorized dealer and can save you some money, especially with a recon case set. There's something just Right about a 4 speed in a rod, too.
Talk to these guys.
Ford truck ZF 5 speed. You'll have an overdrive & a real low 1st. If you aren't hauling anything, you just take off in 2nd, like you would w/ a T19 or an NP435. They were in a bunch of early-mid '90s F250 & F350s. They have a hydraulic clutch & an integral bell, so you'll need to find one off a 300-6 or a 351W.
1st is 5.72
2nd is 2.94
3rd is 1.61
4th is 1
5th is .76
If you would like some real world experience with a T-5, I have one in my '85 GT. It is a World Class and I broke 2nd and 3rd gear just driving down the street. This is a light car, around 2800lbs. I took it to the drag strip, but never ran it on slicks. The transmission is marginal for a stock mustang making under 250 hp and around 300 ft/lbs. If you go over this a little, it won't last long. you can beef it up to be pretty strong, but there are tougher transmissions available. Mine did have about 130,000 miles on it when it broke, though. They are super easy to build and parts are readily available. if you look hard enough, you can find the Borg Warner rebuild manual online for free. It is very detailed and easy to follow. It covers WC and NWC, even Jeep versions.
With that said, if you are EASY on it, it may last forever. But "easy" and "hot rod" don't go together. If this is mildly powered with skinny tires, it may last forever. Weight might be a concern, but since they put these in 6000lb jeeps, I think it is mostly a torque vs. traction issue. I always thought all the hype about them being weak was just hype, but you can break one easliy. This is just my experience with them and maybe it will help you decide. A lot of folks run these behind all kinds of engines including Hemis and Nailheads. And the ones I see most often are from S-10 trucks, which are NWC as far as I know.
I say, just try a stock WC and run it until it breaks. Maybe rebuild it and add some beefier parts first. I bet it will hold up for a long time.
If you want to but new, step up to the new Tremmec 450. For what you need, a good used Mustang T5 should work.
wait, i thought you were an artist? and you have money?
The Mustang T5 won't like that for very long. Get a truck 5 speed if you plan to tow.
FYI.... there are three truck 5 speeds The M5OD-R2 (there is a 4cyl/6cyl version too....it's called the M5OD-R1), and two ZF 5 speeds - M5HD (gas) and M5HD-W (diesel).
The most desireable one would be the Windsor ZF 5 speed (M5HD). Came mostly in F250/350's with 351's. The tranny that was used for 302's and 300 I6's was the M5OD-R2. Some people say the M5OD-R2 is not a good tranny. They have 3 rubber plugs that some times one of them comes out and the tranny pumps its self empty of fliud and then it fails. There is a fix and it's well documented problem that can be fixed. Otherwise they are pretty tough. They are the most common 5 speed because so many manual 300/302 F150's were built.
M5OD-R2 ratios are...
The ZF 5 speed (M5HD) was also behind the 300 I6s in the F250 & F350 trucks, not just the 351W. The M5OD-R2 isn't a very good truck tranny out of the box, like tjm73 said.
One thing to keep in mind about T-5s.....if you use one made for a car and stick it in a pickup, the shifter will come out under your seat. You need to use the T5 housing from an S-10 pickup, the shifter is set further forward. The problem is that those are non-world-class. I read that they can be beefed up with aftermarket parts, not sure of the cost.
(I've been through all this T5 research for my '51 F1 pickup)
You can swap the S-10 tailshaft, shifter, forks, and top cover plate to a WC.
The '85 WC unit was only rated at 260lb/ft, '89 & up were 300lb/ft - doesn't sound like much, but the early ones do seem to break more often - besides, at 130K, what did you expect . I ran a NWC '83 T5 behind a stroker 351 (374) pushing 400hp & munched 3rd synchro very first hard run "driving down the street" - double-clutched it for a year & rebuilt it. It lasted OK, but I rarely got on it. Eventually, lunched 3rd & then 2nd synchros, so double-clutching a lot. Finally popped a '91 WC in with a good shifter & didn't break it.
One of the weakest aspects of them is the stock shifter - there are no stops on it, so if you jam it, you will overshift the trans, bending & even cracking the shift forks, the very next shift will likely lunch the synchros if you're running it hard. The best investment you can make if you like to run hard & shift like a delinquent (don't we all? ) is an aftermarket shifter with positive stops. Adjust those properly, & it will live much longer.
The Mustang guys abuse these & they will take more power than the "book" rating. There are also upgrades to be had. At the risk of repeating myself, I think you'll be fine with a WC '89-up tranny...
This person has a few truck trans on ebay with buy it now prices.
Absolutly true. God knows I've abused mine. However, I still feel the T5 is not the best option here if towing is in the cards. Here's why. the transmission case does not have the meat to keep the main shaft and input shaft from trying to spread away from each other under heavy loads and the gears are not nearly as heavy duty as they should be for towing.
If you were just going to run around with the truck and haul a few parts from time to time I'd agree it's up tot he task, but once you start towing you put huge stresses on the drive line. The T5 will be a significantly weak link.
He's gonna be hauling art supplies!
Yes, one of the T5's weakest points is its thin aluminum case. I don't think he's going to be towing every weekend with it & for the occasional tow, it's more than adequate.
I agree - if he was building a tow truck or a truck he was regularly pulling a heavier boat or always pulling a car trailer around - different story.
I've got loads of towing miles on several T5s...fine for the occasional pull - even something big (towed a '50 Ford 400 miles with my Mustang!).
They have those Autogear O.D. sets for M20 also. They sell them on ebay for $399.00. I've been thinking about building one myself.
You can also bolt the saginaw 3spd OD onto a saginaw 4spd with very little effort....
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