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Technical Ford Rebluilt 390 overheating / vaporlock?!?!?!?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Nellynel07, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    Heres my scenario
    its runs 190degs all day as long as your moving down the road anywhere from 30mph - 75mph. once you pull up and park it will be up to 220 in about 6mins and start to vaporlock but it wont boil over and thats when i shut it down. (no need to hurt my baby)
    my setup
    1964 Ford country sedan 390 w/600 miles , c6 trans w/100 miles on them 3.00 rear end ( also new)
    motor/trans
    • bored .60 over stock internals minus a small street cam, eldelbrock performer intake,
    • holley 750 dp 70 primaries 77 secondaries
    • hei distributor,
    • stock c6 with cooling lines ran through radiator cooler and to a secondary frame rail cooler
    • timing set at 12deg inital and 36 all in with vacume hooked up to the carb port.
    • crank pully is 7-3/8" and the waterpump pully is 6.25"
    • both motor and trans were built by local speed shops ( both great and well trusted shops)
    Cooling system
    • champion alum radiator
    • 15" ele pusher for traffic
    • 17" mechanical no clutch
    • alum shroud
    • new coolant with "super atitive"
    • 180deg tstat
    • new heavy duty water pump from autozone at rebuild
    • all new hoses and new heater core.
    • alum overflow can
    • every single piece of cooling system is new!!!

    Whats next?!
    • remove trans cooler lines from built in radiator cooler and run a high end stacked plate cooler in front of radiator in line with my already frame rail cooler to remove excess trans heat from the radiator allowing it to strictly focus on cooling the motor
    • buy high volume waterpump from summit
    • add a fan clutch set up
    • maybe switch to evans waterless even tho it is stupid expensive
    • add a carb spacer to help with fuel boil
    • insulate fuel lines
    Final thoughts
    • i dont care if she runs hot on 100deg days sitting at lights i just want it to be manageable and not get away from me one day.
    • triple check my timing
    • new FITECH fuel injection should be ariving anyday just waitng on the command center ( back ordered) so adjusting the carb isnt on my to do list unless thats part of the problem
    • SUGGUSTIONS please!!!!!!
    • ill post pictures soon
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  2. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 313

    FityFive
    Member

    Your setup sounds really good. I believe your new fuel injection will cure your problem.

    I state that because most 600 cfm Holley carbs on 390 fe run 67 or 68 primaries (my experience swith AFR gauge). Your 750 pulls a lot more air and you only have 70s. Definitely way to lean in my opinion.
     
  3. 270dodge
    Joined: Feb 11, 2012
    Posts: 742

    270dodge
    Member
    from Ohio

    What is a serieno? Is that the name that you applied to your car ?
     
  4. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,766

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Really? You funny..
     

  5. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,766

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I don't think carb is an issue with over heating at idle with car stopped..1) is radiator specific for engine/car application or one you picked for size/cost?.. You sound like you have enough fans but over heating at idle is usually related to not enough air flow...However I am not familiar with waterpump quality but your pulley selection I think is in the ball park..2) Thermostats these days are not very good...I would put in a Robert Shaw [about $20 from Summit]...3) Are head gaskets steel shim or composite and should they be retorqued per manufacturer?
     
  6. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    fixed
     
  7. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,561

    greybeard360
    Member

  8. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    the 750dp came with stock jetting 72 pri 80 secondaries carb model is 4779-9 i believe
    i do agree i think its a little to big for what i have but i figured i could get her jetted close. i was wrong

    radiator is a champion 3 row 64' fe galaxie specific

    thermostat is a NAPA fail safe 180deg

    head gaskets are fel-pro composite and they have been re-torqued after break in cycle was complete

    waterpump is the heavy duty version from autozone but i think the summit high volume would help out.
     
  9. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    sorry i didnt elaborate *fixed was for my typo that was pointed out by the local hamb grammar teacher
     
  10. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,561

    greybeard360
    Member

    Only because I have seen it happen.... Make sure the electric fan is pushing air the right direction. You say it has a 17 in fan and shroud... What type of fan? Placement of fan in the shroud is important too..... Need photos!!

    Sent from my LG-H343 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

  12. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,759

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Given that original 1964 390 equipped Country Sedans ran at desired temperatures, even with radiator based trans coolers, I don't think that is your problem. Neither do I think it is due to your carburetor and/or jetting, especially at idle, as Seb Fontana pointed out.

    What sort of temp gauge are you using? Do you know that the reading is accurate? That is the FIRST thing I would verify. Second, 'vapor lock' sometimes was a problem back in the day, and hasn't gotten any better with ethanol blended fuels. In my opinion, vapor lock, in and of itself, is no proof of the engine overheating.

    You posted pics while I was typing........it appears to me your shroud is waaaay to deep. The fan blades should be right at the rear edge of the shroud. I also think your pusher fan may be blocking more air flow that it contributes.

    Ray
     
    34toddster likes this.
  13. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    Hopefully the pictures help everyone see what I'm working with. I have the fan wired as a pusher from the front and just double checked that.

    Air cleaner is a powder coated 12" long x 8" wide x 2" tall
     
  14. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    Temp gauge is cheaper sunpro gauge I don't have a infrared gun but I'm Confident it's within 5degs of accurate. The fitech comes with a new ele coolant temp sensor that will replace current sunpro in the intake and the kit comes with a 4" screen that mounts in the cab to monitor engine vitals
     
  15. your shroud is way too deep. It should end with the fan blades half in and half out.
     
    captaintaytay and AHotRod like this.
  16. 53 ford
    Joined: Apr 8, 2012
    Posts: 143

    53 ford
    Member

    Get rid of the hei, put a ford distributor on timed with the nipple of the vacuum advance pointing at the center of the fan. Paint the radiator black and remove the pusher fan. Harley
     
  17. slickhale
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 765

    slickhale
    Member
    from Phoenix

    I've seen this exact problem on an FE before, the head gaskets were on backwards.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 936

    fordor41
    Member

    I agree, fan is in too deep into shroud. Also check that the timing marks on dampener agree with true TDC of #1.
     
    AHotRod likes this.
  19. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    On original assembly I was present for the machine shop to verify tdc on balancer. And I did the pencil method on setting initial timing before break in to double check.

    I double checked head gaskets as well the tabs are in the correct position. That was my first guess too!

    Sounds like the shroud is going on a diet tonight!
     
  20. wood remover
    Joined: Dec 23, 2012
    Posts: 963

    wood remover
    Member

    Hard to tell looking at your photo's , but it does appear to be an aluminium flex fan
    on the motor as well , if it is get rid of that also and find a good ford 390 fan for it .
    those flex fans are junk !!!
     
    captaintaytay and AHotRod like this.
  21. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,937

    carbking
    Member

    Not saying this is YOUR problem, but it was mine:

    The older radiator hoses had stiffening wire. The newer one I purchased did not. The lower radiator hose was collapsing from the pull of the water pump. I cut the two elbows off of the hose, and inserted a piece of aluminum tubing between the two elbows. End of overheating.

    Primary jetting in the carburetor should not be the issue, as at idle, you should be on the idle circuit, not the primary. But it is possible you need more idle fuel.

    Jon.
     
    Rich Corinthian likes this.
  22. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,766

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Basically my thought too but will add that because [the shroud] is way too big a diameter at the fan it allows air to get to the front of the fan by going around the outside of the blades so air doesn't get pulled as much as should be through the restriction of the radiator...Shorten it up, pie cut it to reduce dia at fan..Or if there is a factory shroud try to find one......
     
  23. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    Fan is a 17" all steel Derale
    I agree those flex fans are death traps. There's about a 1/2"-1" gap around to top and sides between edge of fan blade and shroud. But I will try and suck it in tighter.
     
  24. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    Also factory shrouds are pretty much only finger guards.I figured this was a better option.

    Thanks everyone keep the suggestions coming and we will get it figured out!
     
  25. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    Also good idea on hoses I'll double check next time I have her out
     
    Rich Corinthian likes this.
  26. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,766

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Pic is deceiving as to dia of shroud probably because depth of fan...1/2/1" tip clearance is fine..
     
  27. I think its your Timing is the Problem 36 is not right
    I think it should be 38
    Fords are very weird with this as to Chevys
    Just my 3.5 cents
    or when the Cows
    come Home.!
     
  28. The spring in the hose, is only needed for the lower hose.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  29. Nellynel07
    Joined: Dec 8, 2013
    Posts: 47

    Nellynel07
    Member

    I checked apparently my Goodyear hoses don't need the spring anymore. They are more rigid that the old ones But that doesn't mean it's not collapsing! I'll still double check
     
  30. studebaker46
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 670

    studebaker46
    Member

    rule of thumb from 50 plus years of messing with this junk..... overheating at idle= airflow overheating at speed = coolant flow start at the basics font of rad work towards engine. I would say the shroud is too deep and creating a turbulence also an electric fan and a mech don't work well together Tom
     
    AHotRod likes this.

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